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Post subject: Sting Signature PBass Wiring Diagram
Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:41 am
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Hi Guys,

I have just received a Sting Signature for rewiring but I can't find the wiring diagram, I already check on the support site with no success. Can anyone give me a hand?

Your help will be appreciated!!

By the way any tips on this bass electric configuration will be appreciated as well.

Cheers!

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Post subject: Re: Sting Signature PBass Wiring Diagram
Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:24 am
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Mr. Killer wrote:
Hi Guys,

I have just received a Sting Signature for rewiring but I can't find the wiring diagram, I already check on the support site with no success. Can anyone give me a hand?

Your help will be appreciated!!

By the way any tips on this bass electric configuration will be appreciated as well.

Cheers!


Here you go:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wi ... coil_pbass

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Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:26 pm
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Last time I wired one I wound up using a Telecaster Bass Old (early single coil version) diagram. It is completely different from the Seymour Duncan diagram and more like the original wiring on the vintage Fullerton instruments!

http://zeus.lunarpages.com/~jimshi2/wiringdiagrams/telebass.jpg

Of course you delete the ground wire to the pickup cover as there is no pickup cover on the Sting unless you add one. I do suggest however adding a ground jumper wire between the backs of the two pots just to be sure you get the best ground connection possible. With the metal control plate it isn't really required. I did that in case a pot gets a little loose so that there would still be a good ground, otherwise it would cut out. However I've looked at Telecaster wiring and indeed there was no jumper there.

Also this would be a good time to copper shield and ground the control and pickup cavities. Shielding makes a lot of difference on these single coil basses. If installing one of the new custom split wound pickups then shielding is not as critical, but still has enough benefit to make it worthwhile. So long as you are in it anyway....might as well. Since there is no wiring under the pickguard you don't have to line the pickguard with copper as you would a second generation Precision making these first generation P-Basses faster and cheaper to shield. All you need for that is about a foot of ground wire and about a foot of the 2 inch wide self adhesive backed copper. So it takes less than $5 in parts, but figure on it taking about an hour remove pickup and cut the tape, apply it and solder the ground wires from the copper shielding to the back of the volume pot.

I'd also consider an upgrade to a better quality cap than the stock Japanese cap. Cap choices range from the ultra-smooth Paper In Oil "Sprague Vitamin-Q" equivalent to the nearly as smooth sounding Mylar to the harsher, edgier sounding Polyethylene. The hard to find Orange Drop Mylar 225P cap is almost as smooth as the Paper In Oil variety. The common garden variety Orange Drop Poly 715P & 716P caps carried by most of the guitar parts suppliers are slightly better than the stock Japanese Poly caps and for $3 probably are worth it. The Mylar 225P's run about $2.75 and the Paper In Oil caps vary wildly from $3.50 to $25 depending on where you buy them and the brand. Lots of people love the Russian PIO caps but I've stuck to USA made Sprague, Philco and Gudeman brand of Paper In Oil caps so far. One thing I specifically like about the obsolete Vitamin-Q's is the transparent plastic insulation around the metal body of the cap.

You can't do much about the mini-pots though as regular CTS pots won't fit without routing the control cavity and I'd not recommend that at all.

The jack is hard to get to and actually I've never removed one and don't want to. Stew-Mac sells a special tool just for that and I'd rather not have to buy it.

Good luck!


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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:13 am
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Hi Brotherdave as always your knowledge is just outstanding, I'm kind of a young musician (28 years) and I always appreciate what can I learn from people with experience like you.

Besides the compliment, there is another question that I have. I already rewire all the bass and shield it as well, I found that the problem was the pickup, so I have to change it.
I found one that looks interesting and I would like to know your thoughts about it, this is the link:

http://angela.com/lindyfralin6overwound ... nbass.aspx

As always your help will be appreciated!

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Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:04 pm
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Thank you for your kind words. It is my sincere pleasure to share.

That actually is one of the two 51/ Tele pickups I use. But understand up front that if you go with the 6% overwound it will sound a bit more like a second generation P-Bass and a little less like a first generation pickup than the stock wind would. Stock wind is 6.5K, but Mr. Fralin will wind them from 6K to 8 K. The 6% overwind is in the ballpark of 6.9K. I would not suggest overwinding much more than that.

Yes they also will UNDERWIND them too, but I don't suggest that except for a specialized application like a quest for the "Knackbass" sound of Bert Kaempfert Orchestra bassist Ladislav "Ladi" Geisler. You can get close enough to that famous "Tic-tac" sound with hand muting and the tone control on the amp anyway, so it isn't really necessary to go to that extreme.

Sure, the more overwound the pickup the HIGHER the output sounds like a real attractive idea until you also consider that the more overwound the pickup the more highs you have to sacrifice AND the more the mids and lows will be boosted. 6% overwound means 6% more output BUT also means 6% less highs and upper mids. I'm not going to tell you what winding you should get. You have to consider your instrument, your amp, the type of music you play, whether you play with your fingers or a pick, the sound you want and if you want it to sound like a '51, a '54 or like a '62. It is a lot to consider. If you mess up and guess wrong Lindy Fralin will exchange it for tonal reasons with an alternate winding within 30 days.

One of the beautiful things about the stock wound 51/Tele pickup is the airy upper mids and highs yet still they have decent and very clean lows. To me they sound like a happy medium between a Jazz and a second generation P-Bass. Underwind it and you move more toward the Jazz Bass sound, overwind it and you move more to the contemporary P-Bass tone. The stock single coil design sits well in the mix with the tone rolled back like a contemporary P-Bass but then you crank the knob up and cut through like a Jazz. That "happy medium" effect is why I prefer a first generation P-Bass in the first place.

One thing to consider with a Lindy Fralin pickup is that you can EXCHANGE any pickup for "tonal reasons" for 30 days after purchase. They also guarantee them for TEN YEARS! Check the warranties from the other makers and you'll see nobody else offers either an exchange policy or or a ten year guarantee.

The only drawback to the single pickup design is the susceptibility to RFI and the innate hum present in all single coil pickups. Neon signs, nearby transformers, two-way radios and other things can play havoc with them. The innovative split coil wound 51/Tele pickup design, like the Fralin you are considering, conquers the noise problem. My split wound Fralin 51/Tele pickup is one of the most noise free passive pickups I've ever owned.

The second 51/Tele pickup I use and really like is the Seymour Duncan SCPB-3 which is the quarter pounder version. It is also an excellent choice tone wise but offers none of the RFI rejection or hum reduction of the split coil design but it is STILL a great sounding single coil pickup. It is bright and airy and very sensitive. It truly sounds alive and cuts better than any passive pickup I've ever used including the Fralin. It costs less than the Fralin split coil but is a great pickup for these basses if you are looking to do some hard rocking. It also looks good with the larger stainless steel poles. I would not suggest using this pickup without shielding, which you've already done.

I've got two bass line demos for you to listen to featuring the above two pickups. It will take a minute for them to load or even longer on a really slow connection so you'll have to be a little patient. If you have good headphones or speakers, I'm sure you can hear some differences. The recording setup was exactly the same in every regard. I didn't touch anything but the volume and tone controls on the instruments. Pay attention to the tone and not the playing, I do this recording process at home when trying to learn a song.

1. Lindy Fralin Split Wound, Fender '51 RI P-Bass (sister of your Sting), Flatwound GHS 3050 REGULAR Precision Flat Strings and Sprague "Vitamin-Q" 0.047 200V cap. http://brotherdave.com/audio/sweetsoulbrodavebassghs3050demo.mp3

2. Seymour Duncan SCPB-3, JT 401 '54 P-Bass knockoff (my #1 gigging bass), Thomastik-Infeld PowerBass Rounds & the same Sprague "Vitamin-Q" cap value. http://brotherdave.com/audio/sweetsoulbrodavebasstkeb344jt401.mp3


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Post subject: Re: Sting Signature PBass Wiring Diagram
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:23 pm
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I wonder how about Falin Split Single Coil vs Seymour Duncan Stacked Single Coil for my Sting P. Which one is better SOUNDWISELY?


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Post subject: Re: Sting Signature PBass Wiring Diagram
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:49 pm
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B. Bob- I liked the Seymore Duncan- with the Q cap sound and round strings- I presume the amp settings were the same on both recordings?
There is a Sting bass at a shop here where I live. I might go for the bass soon.
I don't care for the little pots. I'll have to look at the input jack to see what's up with it also.
I can say that I probubly wouldn't like the stock sound of the Sting- but who knows, it could be one of those basses that sounds great. With my exp. with the little pots and the caps and pickups, I doubt it.
It would be very hard IMO for anyone to put out a re-issue that would sound as good as Stings P bass ( or even come close). I have the Police reunion tour video and thru my TV sound system that bass sounds incredible. I don't know alot about Stings bass. Maybe you have some "as a matter of fact" info you can expound upon? Any particulars on the Sting reissue? Thanks-- you da' man!


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Post subject: Re: Sting Signature PBass Wiring Diagram
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:22 pm
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Well said, Brother Dave. You're a great resource here.


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Post subject: Re: Sting Signature PBass Wiring Diagram
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:10 pm
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stroker vance wrote:
B. Bob- I liked the Seymore Duncan- with the Q cap sound and round strings- I presume the amp settings were the same on both recordings?


Yes. Same compression settings, eq settings on the recording software, cable, fingers, etc. Just changed instruments. Instrument was plugged into an Aphex Punch Factory compressor, then to a Behringer BDI-21 and then to the mixer which is patched into a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz soundcard. Software is Cool Edit Pro 2 where more compression is added. The bass channel EQ is FLAT and I roll off the bass on the music track using the graphic EQ on that channel only.

The Duncan SCPB3 seems weaker on the "E" string but compression evens it out.

I failed to mention that the 51 RI with the split coil Fralin had the tone backed off from full treble about 40%. The parts bass with the Duncan had the tone pot just barely cracked from full bass in order to minimize RF from the old CRT computer monitor. It is a very bright sound pickup in general.

What I find so remarkable about the split coil Fralin is how much like a second generation P-Bass it sounds. It completely changed the character of the instrument.

The mini-pots do not impact the tone at all. 250K is 250K. I just prefer solid shaft pots with set screws for convenience reasons as I use the set screw holes to "feel" or "see" where the tone pot is set. Also it is harder to find replacement mini-pots than full sized ones if you ever need one. The green chicklet Fender caps are poly caps and I'm not a poly cap fan.


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