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Post subject: Trying to Date a P-Bass (no, not to take it to the movies)
Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 2:22 pm
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I've had a P-Bass since 1980 or 81 - bought is used for ~$200.00(US)

Black Body/Maple Neck

Trying to get a mfg date but there seems to be some inconsistencies in the numbers - maybe you folks can help---

Neck Serial Number:
U 103364 (had neck removed so it's confirmed)

Neck Plate Number:
60 092 (yes, there is a space between the 2nd and 3rd numbers) - weird

Pot Number (pot was bad - replaced and I kept the old pot):
A-1377429 - CTS Corp? 137/74/29 (Company/Year/Week?)

That's really all I can tell you at this point. Any thoughts?


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Post subject: A picture of the bass and numbers is probably needed
Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 4:33 pm
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The number on the neck seems to suggest it was made in Japan in 1995-6

A pot coded 1377429 would have been made by CTS during the 29th week of 1974.


So a picture would be real helpful


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Post subject: Easy To Be Hard...
Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 8:41 pm
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Your bass was most likely made during or shortly after the week of August 26, 1974. Here is how I came to this conclusion.

The number on this neck plate, which is where the true serial should reside on all Fenders prior to 1977, actually dates to between July 1 of 1960 and June 30 of 1961. You have a Pre-CBS neckplate there!

However as Mike Cain pointed out the pots date to the week of July 15, 1974. So that is impossible, unless the pots were changed. More on that coming.

If it was truly a 60-61 bass it would have a hand-written-in-pencil date on the neck butt. No stamps were used until March of 1962 when they first went to the stamps. So we can eliminate the neckplate serial as a valid point of reference.

Initially the number of the neck provided, "U 103364" was somewhat puzzling. That isn't quite enough numbers. There should be eight. That isn't unusual because many of them are smudged and unevenly stamped and many are missing some of the characters. But WAIT, there shouldn't be a "U" at the beginning and there should not be a space after the "U" either! The letter should come at the end, and usually that letter would be an A, B or C. Could the "4" actually be part of the "A" that didn't stamp completely? Don't know, but suspect it really is a 4.

I'm suspecting the neck stamp may actually have started "01" instead of a "U" followed by a blank space. The "0" didn't stamp completely and the "1" didn't make contact at all. "01" is the designation in 1974 for a P-bass neck.

In the serial pattern used in 1974 the LAST digit tells the day of the week, the digit to the left of that tells the year, the two digits immediately to the LEFT of those two digits tell the week. I'm strongly suspecting that this neck was made the 36th week of 1974 which would be August 26-30, 1974. I believe there are two characters missing at the end and one of them is where you usually would see the "C". The other missing character would be a number 1 through 5 for the day of the week.

I do not believe the neckplate is original to that instrument. People have been known to swap them around. Although back in 1980 neck plate swapping wasn't quite as common as today. I've seen a guy on eBay offering custom engraved neckplates with any serial number you wish. Of course his "services" were not available back then. But maybe the owner swapped the plates from another bass for a sentimental reason with no ulterior motive and of course not knowing that 35 years later we'd be trying to figure out why.

So taking the pot codes and the neck stamping into account I see a clear pattern. If the pot wiring looks like an original factory job, then most likely this was born in very late August of 1974
.
Even if the pot solder joints appear non-original, meaning the pots were replaced sometime in or after 1974, still there is no getting around the neck having an ink stamp instead of a pencil mark, even if it is incomplete or smudged. I would guess based on some creative extrapolation of the missing neck stamp characters that those are the original pots and it is a 1974/.1975 model year bass which was put together shortly after the neck was crafted August 26, 1974.

The only other possibility is that the last digit in the neck stamp, "4" is really the last character which means it represents Thursday which shifts everything left and makes this is a 1976 model. But I'm leaning toward '74 because of the pot dates. I'd have to have some really good photos to decide and probably see it in person and maybe examine the neck stamp.


Last edited by brotherdave on Wed May 20, 2009 1:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: A few more things to do
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:16 am
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Please tell us about the decal on the headstock. Tell us any names and numbers on the headstock. Then look closely at the basses in these three auctions and see if any of the parts are the same as on your bass. Are the tuners like the 1961 Bass or the 1974 bass.

http://cgi.ebay.com/LEFTY-Original-1964 ... 1|294%3A50

http://cgi.ebay.com/1961-Fender-Precisi ... 2|294%3A50

http://cgi.ebay.com/1974-VINTAGE-FENDER ... 7C294%3A50


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Post subject: Thanks...
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 5:39 am
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Guys,
Thanks to both of you for the quick and detailed responses.

I will have to get a tech to remove the neck for me to take a photo of the serial number (I don't trust myself to do the job correctly). I obviously had it removed once before, but did not take photos. I merely wrote down the information from what he supplied to me on his work slip.

I can get photos of the head stock and the neck plate this evening.

Mike, I'll also compare the head stock and tuning pegs to the photos that you supplied.

Dave - I too am thinking that this is a '74 or '76 product, as the pots and the neck seem to indicate that. A 60's era neck plate is pretty cool!! (if it's real, which I have no doubt as to the validity of this, as this is the same plate that was on the bass when I purchased it).

Thank you again...I''ll be in touch soon with the photos!


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Post subject: One more quick question...
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 5:42 am
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Dave -
Would a 60's era neck plate be a 3-bolt or 4-bolt plate? The neck plate that I have is a 4-bolt.
Thanks,
Tom


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Post subject: Don't take off the Neck again.
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:57 am
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Don't take off the Neck again.

Can anybody even figure out why there would be a serial number on the bottom part of the neck?

For now leave the bass together and maybe after the pictures somebody will have a better clue.


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Post subject: Re: Don't take off the Neck again.
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:45 am
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mikecain wrote:
Can anybody even figure out why there would be a serial number on the bottom part of the neck?


Mike, it isn't really a "serial" as such that he is talking about as a neck serial. It is more correctly a neck code he's talking about. All Fender instruments with the exception of some 1959 instruments have a neck heel marking of some sort.

(Legend holds that one customer interpreted one of the pencil marks on his neck heel as an obscenity and complained about it. So Fender discontinued marks of any sort for a brief period starting in 1959 and resuming in 1960.)

In as few words as possible: Pencil markings showed the date the neck was made and neck profile up until March of 1962. From March 1962 until 1980 they used rubber stamps that showed model, neck profile, fingerboard material, fretted or fretless and EXACT date made. Sometimes they also were stamped a second time with the name of the craftsman. I had two stamped J. Torres. Starting in 1980 they switched to date code stickers on the neck, neck pocket, and/or pickup cavity. It isn't really a serial number but is a code that tells a lot of different things and if complete can sometimes narrow down to the specific day when that particular neck was made if you know how to read the codes.


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Post subject: Re: One more quick question...
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:55 am
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Tommy Boo wrote:
Dave -
Would a 60's era neck plate be a 3-bolt or 4-bolt plate? The neck plate that I have is a 4-bolt.
Thanks,
Tom


All Precisions are 4 bolt necks. All Telecasters 6 string guitars also have 4 bolts. They never "UPGRADED" to the three bolt design on either instrument. However the First Generation P-Bass reissue called the Telecaster Bass did get a three-bolt neck. Go figure.

By 1980 the three bolt design was history. May it rest in peace.


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Post subject: You can look on the pickups for a date too.
Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 10:41 pm
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Fender used to stamp, or write by hand the date on the pickups. I think it was the bottom side they dated. Does the neck plate have the large "F" on it

I believe it was in 1965 they started to use the F neck plate. Before that starting in 1963 they used a plain neck plate with just the serial number that started with an L. Prior to 1963 the neck plate was plain with a serial number but without the "L".


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Post subject: Neck Plate
Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 6:34 am
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I started to take the photos last night, then the NiCd (or whatever it is) battery died in the digital camera (just my luck).

The neck plate does have the Fender "F" on it.

I'll try to post the pics over the weekend.
Thanks and Happy Memorial Day. Thank you to those who have served.


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Post subject:
Posted: Sat May 23, 2009 2:32 am
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Well that is really weird that it has the "F" script and the date for the serial on the same plate is a 60-61 serial. Doesn't make much sense at all.


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