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Post subject: query about an 82 Fullerton Reissue...
Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 12:54 pm
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Hey there...
I have a question that's been dogging me for years and maybe someone here can answer it. About 10 years ago, I bought for dirtcheap (you don't want to know) a Fender Vintage reissue bass with a late 82 body and an early 83 neck...Theoretically, it is supposed to be a copy of a '62 P-bass ...I bought it from the original owner. My understanding is that the '59 came with the anodized gold pickguard and the 62 came with the tortoise shell. The one I have (and the owner said he bought it new like this), has the gold guard on it. I talked to a Fender rep at one time and he said it's possible that it may have been made like this at Fullerton as they were making some crazy combinations during this time. This is a Fiesta Red bass with rosewood fretboard which points to a 62 RI (I think the 59 had a maple fretboard)...didn't the 59 RI have 10 screws and the 62 had 13? This one has 10 and no extra holes under the guard...this bass has confused me for years...It's one of my favorite basses... it plays like a dream...
My question is, what do you experts think? Is this original or did the owner forget that he may have put on a gold pickguard later in the basses life?
Not sure if it's possible to put pics on here...I could probably figure out how to do a photobucket thing if necessary.
Thanks!


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Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 1:00 pm
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lets try an image:

Image


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Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 1:02 pm
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and a pick of the headstock

Image


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Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 1:40 pm
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Nice bass! It sounds like an original guard on the bass if there are no extra holes under the PG.
Perhaps it was supposed to be a '57 reissue and something went wrong with the original neck. They could've slapped on a RW board neck and sent it out to a store.
Play it and enjoy it. I love an aluminum pickguard. It changes the sound of the bass for the better IMHO.

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Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:48 pm
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yep, it's my favorite blues bass...I have flats on it and it just drips thumpy tone through my old SWR 350 and a 4X10 cab...I have another later P-bass early 90's and it's nice too but this thing practically plays itself.


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Posted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:56 pm
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I agree with what the Fender rep told you. As they approached the end of production at Fullerton they were trying to use up all the existing parts. Hence some really interesting variations appeared. You may have one of these variations. The simple truth is that they may not have had a tort guard left!

Fiesta Red looks best with the gold anodized guard anyway! They did make both rosewood and maple in 59. Also they made both varieties in 58 when Donald "Duck" Dunn bought one P-bass of each type neck according to Tim Tindall's book "What Duck Done."

Duck played these basses on the Otis Redding Stax sessions and he gave one of these basses to James Alexander who was the bassist for the Bar-Kays so he could take it on the 67/68 Otis Redding tour. The Bar-Kays was the road band for Otis Redding plus had a huge hit of their own called "Soul Finger" just before the tour. This Duck Dunn owned '58 Precision went down on the plane with Otis Redding, Mr. Redding's road manager and five members of the Bar-Kays in December of 1967, however Mr. Alexander himself was on a second plane that didn't crash. The Redding charter didn't have enough room for Mr. Alexander. The only survivor of the Redding crash was the Bar-Kays trumpet player Ben Cauley. Mr. Alexander and Mr. Cauley rebuilt the Bar-Kays which disbanded for a while in the late 1980's. Bassist Alexander rebuilt the Bar-Kays without Mr. Cauley in 1991 and the band is still active today.


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Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 5:49 am
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Thanks brotherdave for that info. It is as I suspected too. The only downside to that bass is that it's not all original. When I bought it, it had active p'ups in it (the original owner had shoe horned them in) so I yanked them out and put in a set of Fender "Originals" Precision p'ups...the darned thing plays really nice...was just playing it last night as a matter of fact at band practice. It nails Dusty Hill's tone on Jesus Left Chicago...what more could one ask for?
My band mates look ascanse at the color but I love it...and who cares about the color as long as the tone is there. I guess they don't understand "cool" 8) . It's faded to an almost pinkish orange.


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Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 10:05 am
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Hi Folks, hope everyone is doing good out there.
As it turns out, I was working on the guitar tune/test/final inspection line at the time that we began the Vintage Reissue Series and on through to the end of that run in 1984.
brotherdave, i know you're going on info that you may have heard or read, so no sweat on you at all..... but the truth is that although I'm sure there probably were "interesting variations" in designs and such....once the guitars were "spec'd" we did stick to those specs. Also, there is always the possibility of incorrect things having slipped by inspection, but i believe that these were rare. So, what I'm saying is that if a 57 P Bass came down the line with a White PG....it would be rejected and be sent back for installation of the correct Gold Anodized one. THe same is true for the 62 P. RW Neck...Tortoise Shell PG (Also I noticed 59's mentioned...these were 57 reissues not 59...picky picky rob!!!!).
So although your bass appears to be a 62, dedmouse, you are correct that the white PG is incorrect. It should be Tortoise.

So i guess my argument is with the "they may not have had any tortoise left" statement and the kind of..."they were slappin them together" feeling I get--- from what I believe is largely a myth from those days. From my vantage point, heavy attention was paid to quality and specifications from 82 on. 82 is when Dan Smith, Bill Schultz and others who eventually bought the company really started turning it around quality-wise. I can honestly state here that this attention was important and adhered to- up to and through the day I was laid off in Aug.84 (and through the new company as well)
But.....i blather on....!!!!
Anyway...good reading...good stuff! Carry on!!
All the best,
rob


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Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 11:08 am
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Thanks Rob for that info. It helps nail down some questions I've had over the years I've owned this bass...I guess I should start looking for a tort PG for it although the gold ano PG does look pretty righteous on the Fiesta Red body (and by virtue of it being metal, shields it pretty well too).

I am thinking though that I had seen recent 60s Reissues brand new with gold ano PG's but maybe not. I'll have to check again when I have time.

From what I've read about Fender during those times, early 80's and talked to others in the "know" (I am a Fender certified e-tech) they were good times and the quality issues were being dealt with in a big way, full well knowing that the viability of the company was dependant on turning around the quality issues that were pervasive in the company during the CBS years. The quality of this bass speaks to that.

Who knows, Rob, maybe you inspected my bass! That would be cool.

Again, thanks Rob for that really good and accurate info.


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Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 11:23 am
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My pleasure dedmouse,
Aside from all the info.....its a Pickguard....I would use whatever you think looks cool.

:D

Cheers,
rob


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Posted: Wed May 06, 2009 11:38 am
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one more question for you Rob...according to all I've read, the 62 had 13(?) holes in the PG, and the 59 had 10, and there are no extra holes underneath the PG on this bass...this is one of the conundrums that I've noticed about this bass...
and you're right..it is only a PG... :)
I don't plan on getting selling the bass anytime soon, I'll probably leave that up to my kids after I'm wormfood. I just like to know the straight skinny on the bass because I get asked about it alot at gigs.
One other thing that's not original (i think) on it is that it has a hipshot tuner on it that looks like it's been there almost as long as the bass has been around...it certainly has the same "patina" as the other three tuners.


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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 8:30 pm
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Everyone, I would like to point out that I was misquoted by Rob Schwarz. I never said, "They were slapping them together." My post has not been edited either. For Mr. Schwarz to name me by name, quote what I actually did say and then post another quote makes it appear that I also said the other quote as well! Guilt by association. What I actually said is there to read. I don't think anyone ever said anything about "slapping them together." I know that I didn't say anything like that at all!

I have personally seen two instruments that I truly believe to be factory original variations during this year and this one would be number three. This is not anything that I "heard" but something I have seen in person. Perhaps they were custom orders, I don't know for sure but they were variations from the norm.

Maybe Mr. Schwarz can explain why my Fender Highway 1 bass came out of the factory sealed box with the WRONG STRINGS on it! The bass at that time was speced with taperwound strings and they were not taperwound.

I'm sure near the end when everyone was getting laid off at Fullerton the quality control soared to an all time high. Nothing instills attention to detail like suspecting the company is going to boot you any moment now.

So what we have here is one Fender employee telling you one thing and now another Fender employee contradicting what the first one said and then on top of that making me look like a jerk by quoting me as saying something I never said!

I've tried to be as kind, patient and helpful as I possibly could be here. Maybe I've helped a couple of you. I truly hope so. I can't be misquoted if I don't say anything, so it is my own fault for posting here in the first danged place. I'll chalk it up to a lesson learned.


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Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 9:04 pm
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The past week or so since I originally posted this, I have done some research on these basses and I suspect strongly that it is a '59 reissue of some sort. One thing I'm not sure of...did Fender only make a '57 and a '62 Fullerton Reissue during the early 80's? I know mine can't be a '57 because as far as I know, in 1957, the P basses only came with maple fretboards.

I have found that in 1959, the precision bass was made with both a maple and rosewood fingerboard as you said brotherdave. Also there is almost no doubt that on my bass, the neck and the body have always been together since it was made...the neck is dated 1/83 and the body is dated 12/82 (or the other way around...I can't remember now and I'm not going to take it apart to find out :wink: ).

The other thing that leads me to believe that this is indeed a '59 reissue of some sort is that it has 10 screwholes in the pickguard, not 13 as a '62 would have (and as I mentioned before, there aren't "extra" holes in the body under the PG).

I do know that the color of the bass is pretty rare for this series bass and it has generated some interest in a couple of my friends that like "off-beat" Fenders. I've been offered a fair amount of $$$ for it but have declined. I will keep it until I am gone from this vale of tears then my kids can do whatever they want with it as I will no longer care.

On another note, I went into my local purveyor of Fender goods today to see if I had anything to fix (I do their amp repairs for them) and one of the sales guys dragged me out into the bass lair to show me a new aquisition. It was a MIM 60's "roadworn" J-Bass the same color as my P-bass, fiesta red, and it was a very playable guitar...there's no way I could get it past my dear bride though...she said that 9 basses was enough...wives just don't understand :roll: !


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Posted: Sun May 24, 2009 9:09 pm
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One possibility with your bass is that the neck may have been switched at the dealer. What if one customer came in and liked the 62 reissue but they really wanted a maple neck of the '57 instead of rosewood?
The store could switch the necks and both basses leave the store in modified condition creating specualtion about what Fender did for the rest of their existence.

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Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 4:07 am
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That thought had crossed my mind but the two guitars that might have had their necks swapped would have had to have had the correct logo (mine does) and they would have had to have been made at the the same time, or within several weeks of each other as the dates on the body and the neck on mine is only several weeks apart.


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