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Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:58 am
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I changed out the bridge on mine for a Fender American Deluxe bridge, which drops right in place and has holes for either through-body or topside string loading. I'm sure the cover would fit over it.

As to colors, I've done a little research and can add that ash was changed to alder on sunburst basses in 1956. Also, I'm almost certain that the fiesta red on the current Classic '50s P is a different color from the original. George Fullerton has told the story that he had the first fiesta red custom mixed at a local paint shop in late '57 or early '58; the current fiesta red is said to be identical to a Ford Thunderbird factory color for 1956, which indicates it isn't the same color at all. I own a Classic '50s fiesta red P, so maybe I'm more interested in this issue.

One more thing about finishes: it looks like sunburst arrived with the contour body in '54 (which makes sense, since Fender had just introduced the Strat, which had both features).

"Butterscotch" isn't the original color of the early P, but is supposed to be more like what one would look like now, after years of aging and exposure to UV. When Fender Japan made reissues in the early 1990s, they duplicated the original transparent wash over ash -- the "butterscotch" is a modern poly finish. I wish they had tried a little harder to make it look like the originals.

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Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:15 am
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Quote:
Cause it has the through body bridge I would slap a badassIII bridge on it,


You don't like the original bridge?
Some have intonation problems with it, I don't myself.

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Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:37 am
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Me too I want one like I went back in time bought one new and came back

bass-flyer wrote:
Quote:
Cause it has the through body bridge I would slap a badassIII bridge on it,


You don't like the original bridge?
Some have intonation problems with it, I don't myself.


The 2 sats don't do it for me, I need longer sustain, make people with how long I can hold a note like Carlos Santana

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Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:37 am
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Me too I want one like I went back in time bought one new and came back

bass-flyer wrote:
Quote:
Cause it has the through body bridge I would slap a badassIII bridge on it,


You don't like the original bridge?
Some have intonation problems with it, I don't myself.


The 2 sats don't do it for me, I need longer sustain, make people cry with how long I can hold a note like Carlos Santana

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Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:43 am
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I prefer the butterscotch to the two-tone sunburst on this model, but I love the two-tone sunburst on my 57 reissue.


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Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:46 am
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Here's a pic of mine before Sweetwater shipped it to me (girl not included):

Image

I added the chrome covers later after I got it home.


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Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:33 pm
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Mastermold wrote:
(girl not included):

Image


That sucks man

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Post subject: Oh Really Tommy?
Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:21 am
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tommygunn wrote:
....the tobacco sunburst is ulgy. Cause it has the through body bridge I would slap a badassIII bridge on it, but only if the bridge cover fit over it. And mabey the basslines (duncan) QP pup.

my plan is to but the mike dirnt and the 51 at the same time switch the necks and they both look custom


Opinions on colors are like noses, everyone has one. I think the '51 sunburst finish is way more classy looking than the baby puke yellow. The sunburst is also very hard to get and far more scarce. Guitar Center wanted to charge me nearly $300 extra for one in Sunburst. So I went elsewhere and got one for the same price as the baby puke. Even though the model is called a reissue, it is really more of a reproduction. The thing has mini-pots, a poly finish and a different neck radius. From a distance it might be mistaken for a '51, but in essence it is at best a modern reproduction. I like mine a lot!

The BAIII bridge is a popular upgrade, but so large that it will protrude a tad from under the bridge cover. If you use a cover and this bothers you a better option is the FENDER DELUXE BASS BRIDGE which has 4 saddles and also allows for either bridge-through (preferred for flats) or body-through stringing which yields better sustain. I've noticed though that the Fender Deluxe Bass Bridge isn't quite long enough to get the intonation 100% dead-on for my instrument, but more like 99%. It is a drop in replacement requiring no mods at all. The BAIII has to be grooved with files by someone experienced at that sort of thing or you have to buy the pre-grooved version. The pre-grooved one doesn't sound as good according to some people. Another bridge that fits under the bridge cover for critical intonation is the innovative tilt-saddle bridge from Wilkinson, but it allows body-through stringing only. Since I'm always going to use flats on my '51 RI due the vintage frets I'm using the Fender Deluxe Bass Bridge and compromising a tad on the intonation.

I have used 5 or 6 different pickups on first generation P-basses. I've lost count. The Seymour Duncan SCPB3 "Quarter Pounder" is an interesting sounding pickup to say the least, but is now my second choice. I still have one on my '54. The only problem is that the SCPB3 can be just as noisy, if not more noisy, than the original. I've pulled it out at some venues and had to put it up due to neon lights and such. It also can sound strident when you crank the treble wide open, which of course absolutely delights me. It sounds like a Jazz Bass on crack and I love having that edgy sound available.

I have a split-coil pickup in my '51. This is an innovation that deserves some sort of award (Nobel Prize maybe?) because it eliminates hum and other nasty interference that drives any single-coil pup nuts. A couple of custom pickup shops will make you one of the split-coil pickups, but since they are twice as labor intensive they are also roughly twice as expensive as a single coil version. The split-coil pickups for first generation P-basses sound more like the second generation pickups and you lose some of the bite but gain thump. I'm using the Lindy Fralin version and it is one of the best upgrades I've ever done on anything. If you are going to gig the '51 Reissue, a split-coil pickup is the way to fly because of the interference elimination.


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Post subject: Re: Oh Really Tommy?
Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:43 am
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brotherdave wrote:
tommygunn wrote:
....the tobacco sunburst is ulgy. Cause it has the through body bridge I would slap a badassIII bridge on it, but only if the bridge cover fit over it. And mabey the basslines (duncan) QP pup.

my plan is to but the mike dirnt and the 51 at the same time switch the necks and they both look custom


Opinions on colors are like noses, everyone has one. I think the '51 sunburst finish is way more classy looking than the baby puke yellow. The sunburst is also very hard to get and far more scarce. Guitar Center wanted to charge me nearly $300 extra for one in Sunburst. So I went elsewhere and got one for the same price as the baby puke. Even though the model is called a reissue, it is really more of a reproduction. The thing has mini-pots, a poly finish and a different neck radius. From a distance it might be mistaken for a '51, but in essence it is at best a modern reproduction. I like mine a lot!

The BAIII bridge is a popular upgrade, but so large that it will protrude a tad from under the bridge cover. If you use a cover and this bothers you a better option is the FENDER DELUXE BASS BRIDGE which has 4 saddles and also allows for either bridge-through (preferred for flats) or body-through stringing which yields better sustain. I've noticed though that the Fender Deluxe Bass Bridge isn't quite long enough to get the intonation 100% dead-on for my instrument, but more like 99%. It is a drop in replacement requiring no mods at all. The BAIII has to be grooved with files by someone experienced at that sort of thing or you have to buy the pre-grooved version. The pre-grooved one doesn't sound as good according to some people. Another bridge that fits under the bridge cover for critical intonation is the innovative tilt-saddle bridge from Wilkinson, but it allows body-through stringing only. Since I'm always going to use flats on my '51 RI due the vintage frets I'm using the Fender Deluxe Bass Bridge and compromising a tad on the intonation.

I have used 5 or 6 different pickups on first generation P-basses. I've lost count. The Seymour Duncan SCPB3 "Quarter Pounder" is an interesting sounding pickup to say the least, but is now my second choice. I still have one on my '54. The only problem is that the SCPB3 can be just as noisy, if not more noisy, than the original. I've pulled it out at some venues and had to put it up due to neon lights and such. It also can sound strident when you crank the treble wide open, which of course absolutely delights me. It sounds like a Jazz Bass on crack and I love having that edgy sound available.

I have a split-coil pickup in my '51. This is an innovation that deserves some sort of award (Nobel Prize maybe?) because it eliminates hum and other nasty interference that drives any single-coil pup nuts. A couple of custom pickup shops will make you one of the split-coil pickups, but since they are twice as labor intensive they are also roughly twice as expensive as a single coil version. The split-coil pickups for first generation P-basses sound more like the second generation pickups and you lose some of the bite but gain thump. I'm using the Lindy Fralin version and it is one of the best upgrades I've ever done on anything. If you are going to gig the '51 Reissue, a split-coil pickup is the way to fly because of the interference elimination.


Ha! Jazz bass on crack! LOL

Instead of the 51ri with the split coil, couldn't I just get the mike dirnt and put the 51ri's neck on it (honestly I don't like rosewood)? Yes I know that the mike dirnt has a 54-55 "outside" arm. Also I was thinking putting a rickenbacker output on it so I can run it through two amps (when I get two amps lol) to get a kinda Chris Squire (of yes) sound.
I want the 51 cause of its looks but mainly cause of it's sound that the splitcoil pbass dosn't have. And I with any color I get on it, get it custom colored like red...that would be cool. I don't want the sunburst cause it's not true to the year it clames to be ri-ing. And I wouldn't be sitting here talking bout the 51ri if I was rich, if I had my choice I would get the CS 53ri (correct me if I have the wrong year) I mean %^$*%$%^****&63 thats a fine looking bass, I love the color theo-cantor has.

Well any more info would be nice, and thanks Dave that helped alot :D

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Post subject: Re: Oh Really Tommy?
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:52 pm
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tommygunn wrote:
Instead of the 51ri with the split coil, couldn't I just get the mike dirnt and put the 51ri's neck on it (honestly I don't like rosewood)? Yes I know that the mike dirnt has a 54-55 "outside" arm. Also I was thinking putting a rickenbacker output on it so I can run it through two amps (when I get two amps lol) to get a kinda Chris Squire (of yes) sound.
I want the 51 cause of its looks but mainly cause of it's sound that the splitcoil pbass dosn't have. And I with any color I get on it, get it custom colored like red...that would be cool. I don't want the sunburst cause it's not true to the year it clames to be ri-ing. And I wouldn't be sitting here talking bout the 51ri if I was rich.....


Hi again Tommy,
1. I am not sure that the necks are interchangeable between these two very different instruments, but they may be. Anyone else know? Chet? Zod? Anyone?
2. Chris Squire? Since you want the single coil sound I would put the Seymour Duncan SCPB3 on it and then see if you still think you need further mods. I don't think you can make it sound exactly like a Rick no matter what you do, but it will sound very aggressive with the SCPB3.
3. You say you are going to finish it in red. Then you say you don't like the sunburst because it wasn't original in '51. I'm pretty sure they didn't make red ones either in '51. You are contradicting yourself. Also keep in mind that the sunburst ones are going to be the ones with the best wood. They select the bodies worthy of a good sunburst finish first and then spray the ones not good enough to be sunburst in that yellow. So even if refinishing it in another color the sunburst ones will have the best body wood. The sunburst would be the one to buy especially if you are going to have a custom see through blond finish applied. The wood would matter less on an opaque finish.
4. If I was rich I would still have a '51 Reissue, and in fact I would have several. The reason is that I would never take a real '51 to a gig in some of the places where I play because frankly it is just too risky. I might take a Custom Shop reissue to gigs if I was like Steve Jobs or Bill Gates rich. The '51 Reissue plays great, looks good and sounds fine for gigging. But keep in mind that RF interference is a risk with the single coil and I'd have a backup split coil or other humbucking bass handy just in case the environment where you have to play has interference issues. Sometimes something as common as overhead light dimmer switches can make my single coil bass so noisy I have to put it away. I think shielding might help this and I'm going in that direction on the single coil bass. It is just so time consuming to do a good shielding job that I've not gotten around to doing it. But I'm going down that road with this bass soon.


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Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:18 pm
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Baby puke? I've never heard butterscotch described that way! :shock: Anyway I've found (at least with mine) the color is actually pretty similar to the original early 50s Fenders but darker. Wish it wasn't finished in thick polyurethane however.


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Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:26 pm
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I believe Fender uses a standard dimension neck pocket on most basses (including width, deck height, and length) with the exception of +20 fret necks. I have swapped several necks without problems.

Warmoth has the neck pocket dimensions posted on their web site, and it would be a simple matter to check those against you own instrument (I have installed Warmoth necks on Squier II and MIM Standard Ps without gaps -- they license several of their features from Fender, so they ought to know).

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Post subject: Re: Oh Really Tommy?
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:53 pm
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brotherdave wrote:
tommygunn wrote:
Instead of the 51ri with the split coil, couldn't I just get the mike dirnt and put the 51ri's neck on it (honestly I don't like rosewood)? Yes I know that the mike dirnt has a 54-55 "outside" arm. Also I was thinking putting a rickenbacker output on it so I can run it through two amps (when I get two amps lol) to get a kinda Chris Squire (of yes) sound.
I want the 51 cause of its looks but mainly cause of it's sound that the splitcoil pbass dosn't have. And I with any color I get on it, get it custom colored like red...that would be cool. I don't want the sunburst cause it's not true to the year it clames to be ri-ing. And I wouldn't be sitting here talking bout the 51ri if I was rich.....


Hi again Tommy,
1. I am not sure that the necks are interchangeable between these two very different instruments, but they may be. Anyone else know? Chet? Zod? Anyone?
2. Chris Squire? Since you want the single coil sound I would put the Seymour Duncan SCPB3 on it and then see if you still think you need further mods. I don't think you can make it sound exactly like a Rick no matter what you do, but it will sound very aggressive with the SCPB3.
3. You say you are going to finish it in red. Then you say you don't like the sunburst because it wasn't original in '51. I'm pretty sure they didn't make red ones either in '51. You are contradicting yourself. Also keep in mind that the sunburst ones are going to be the ones with the best wood. They select the bodies worthy of a good sunburst finish first and then spray the ones not good enough to be sunburst in that yellow. So even if refinishing it in another color the sunburst ones will have the best body wood. The sunburst would be the one to buy especially if you are going to have a custom see through blond finish applied. The wood would matter less on an opaque finish.
4. If I was rich I would still have a '51 Reissue, and in fact I would have several. The reason is that I would never take a real '51 to a gig in some of the places where I play because frankly it is just too risky. I might take a Custom Shop reissue to gigs if I was like Steve Jobs or Bill Gates rich. The '51 Reissue plays great, looks good and sounds fine for gigging. But keep in mind that RF interference is a risk with the single coil and I'd have a backup split coil or other humbucking bass handy just in case the environment where you have to play has interference issues. Sometimes something as common as overhead light dimmer switches can make my single coil bass so noisy I have to put it away. I think shielding might help this and I'm going in that direction on the single coil bass. It is just so time consuming to do a good shielding job that I've not gotten around to doing it. But I'm going down that road with this bass soon.


For the chris squire thing... not exactly like Rick I just was thinking that for his "signature sound" he uses the dual output for two amps.

Also the red it would be a custom color to make it to look like a custom shop but... for the time being I would want the color to be more true to the original 51.

Hmmm... that could be a problem with the singlecoil, I was thinking to get a $75 Bullet bass ant custom fitting a singlecoil in it... guess that won't work!

I just tried out the Squire 50's "sumthin-vibe" (sorry can't remember the name) in LPB and it's a pritty nice bass I like the feel of the 60's sumthin-vibe but the 50's sounds better. I also tried out the geddy and dang the action was super low and there was no and I mean no fretbuzz, goodlord that was a nice bass, didn't like the sound even for maple it just wasn't snappy enough :? . The squire 50's vibe bass is good enough for me, I just might get it after I get my amp. I also tried the road-worn pbass in 2-color sunburst, man was it snappy! Very nice, action was close to the geddy's but it had a bit of a bigger neck but a lot snappy'r (which was very very good) would have taken it home if I had the money, I don't want to buy my amp there cause if the geddy or the road-worn is still there I could come home with one of 'em instead!! lol

Not to get off topic (like I havn't already :) ) but I've always wonderd why pbasses never had block inlays?

lol Thanks dave you have a good sport putting up with me and answering my questions!!! Kudos!!! :D :D :D

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Post subject: Re: Oh Really Tommy?
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:26 pm
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tommygunn wrote:

Not to get off topic (like I havn't already :) ) but I've always wonderd why pbasses never had block inlays?


That question has come up before. The block inlays were considered too fancy for the P-bass. The P was the basic low end bass in the line. The inlays were labor intensive and one of the reasons the Jazz cost more. Other than pickguard changes the appearance of the P has never changed a whole lot since the second generation design debuted. If they had put block inlays on them they would have had to raise the price to roughly the same for both. I think for example in 1971 the street price for a Jazz was about $75 more than a Precision. A Precision was about $350 and a Jazz about $425. While that may sound like a tiny difference by today's standards, it really wasn't. Minimum wage was like $1.75 an hour back then, so you are talking about over a weeks pay.


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Post subject: Re: Oh Really Tommy?
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:32 pm
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brotherdave wrote:
tommygunn wrote:

Not to get off topic (like I havn't already :) ) but I've always wonderd why pbasses never had block inlays?


That question has come up before. The block inlays were considered too fancy for the P-bass. The P was the basic low end bass in the line. The inlays were labor intensive and one of the reasons the Jazz cost more. Other than pickguard changes the appearance of the P has never changed a whole lot since the second generation design debuted. If they had put block inlays on them they would have had to raise the price to roughly the same for both. I think for example in 1971 the street price for a Jazz was about $75 more than a Precision. A Precision was about $350 and a Jazz about $425. While that may sound like a tiny difference by today's standards, it really wasn't. Minimum wage was like $1.75 an hour back then, so you are talking about over a weeks pay.


Oh thanks! That helps, REALLY!!! I think that I read somewhere that up until the 90's the pbass sound was wanted more by bassists which seems funny that the pbass is the "lower class" of the two basses, oh well I will always know that P basses are higher quality (to me)

Oh yeah I made that perfect bass lol it took forever (this is the mikedirnt with 51 neck)

[img][img]http://i542.photobucket.com/albums/gg409/tommygunnfretless/funkeybass.jpg[/img][/img]

Not perfect editing skills maght I add!! lol

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