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Post subject: James Jamerson's "Funk Machine"
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:43 pm
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This is going to be the biggest investment I've ever made in my life (I'm 22 :) - Only thing is I want it to be perfect the first time around.

I'm going to replicate James Jamerson's rig the best I can. After listening to John Deacon for quite sometime I thought I'd found the sound I was looking for... Nope. Its the "FUNK MACHINE"!.

The Bass - http://www.guitarcenter.com/Fender-Amer ... 1146315.gc

The Pickups - http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/ ... sku=300299

The Strings - http://www.juststrings.com/lab-0760m.html


=================================

What I want to know is:

1) Would I need to file out the nut for the strings to fit?

2) Should I snip the strings at all, or wind up them up whole?

3) Will the heavy gauge La Belle Strings cause my bass to "Bow" and go out of tune?

4) How do I prevent the bass from going out of tune under such heavy tension?

5) How exactly do I set the action higher?

6) Is there a foam mute substitute I can pick up at an office store (Office Depot)

7) Should the truss rods be re-tightened as soon as I set the action and tighten the strings?

8) What kind of portable Ampeg Amp would supplement this bass well but can still fit in the back of a trunk? (I'm looking for a new little portable amp)

===================================

-Richard


Last edited by deltapancake on Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: My 2 cents worth
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:20 pm
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If you are talking about James Jamerson's FUNK MACHINE sound then skip the active pickups, you won't need them. I'd be very hesitant to do any mods on this bass as it is widely considered one of the best basses to ever come out of Corona. I wish I had one.

Here are my answers to your questions, lots of which are my opinion and the rest based on personal experience.

1) Would I need to file out the nut for the strings to fit? I did on a 72 Jazz bass to stop the G string and A string from popping out of the nut while playing. On my 76 P-Bass I didn't so, I don't know for sure, but the Labella Jamerson set is much larger.

2) Should I snip the strings at all, or wind up them up whole? Install them normally like Jamerson did. Just like factory installed strings with 2 to 3 wraps showing around the post..

3) Will the heavy gauge La Belle Strings cause my bass to "Bow" and go out of tune? They bowed Mr. Jamerson's bass and my '72 Jazz, then they didn't bow a 76 Precision. Even if it does bow the neck it won't make it "out of tune" as the tuners are adjustable. It might change the intonation though.

4) How do I prevent the bass from going out of tune under such heavy tension? Once tuned the Labella 760's have always been very stable for me.

5) How exactly do I set the action higher? Raise the bridge a little and put more relief in the neck, both of which will require the intonation to be adjusted. I'd get a Fender Certified Tech to do the initial set up.

6) Is there a foam mute substitute I can pick up at an office store (Office Depot) I use just standard packing foam UNDER the strings. This is the same kind of foam you find in microphone cases. Works well. I think you can also buy it at craft stores. I use this foam ONLY for roundwound strings though. On flats I use a felt wrap instead of foam. Do a search in the Precision forum on "FELT" and you should find my post with photos. I find I can remove the felt after about 4 to 6 months, so it isn't a permanent thing and doesn't require any mods to the instrument at all.

7) Should the truss rods be re-tightened as soon as I set the action and tighten the strings? The initial truss rod adjustment would be best made after the initial tuning and raising the bridge . Other truss rod tweaks may be required. Still on an instrument this nice, I'd spend the extra money to get a certified tech to do it.

What kind of portable Ampeg Amp would supplement this bass well but can still fit in the back of a trunk? (I'm looking for a new little portable amp) Since you are going for the Jamerson sound you'll need a 15 inch combo. I have three options for you. 1. The Ampeg BA300/115 which is 300 watts. 2. The Ampeg BA600/115. 3. The Ampeg B200 is 220 Watts, but much heavier than the BA300 or BA600, while the B200 is more "old school" looking and sounding, approximating the sound of a B-15.

BUT...I've used Ampeg as my gig amp since 1970 and I'm hearing of reliability issues with the Chinese Ampegs and apparently serious quality control issues. Therefore my next amp will NOT be an Ampeg. It will be a MarkBass. I would encourage you to try out a MarkBass combo instead of the Ampeg. You can actually get Ampeg-like tones with their combos, plus the MarkBass combos are way lighter and by everyone's account are some very reliable amps. You don't need a horn to get the Jamerson sound, so the Jeff Berlin model combo might be the MarkBass combo for you. Another point in favor of The MarkBass combos is they have extension speaker outputs so you can add an auxiliary 8 ohm cab to ramp up the 300 watt rating with the combo speaker alone to 500 watts with an 8 Ohm extension cab. The reason the Ampeg combos lack an extension speaker jack is because all Ampeg combos come with a 4 Ohm speaker to maximize the output from the 4 Ohm amp without requiring an extension cab.

It is a fact that James Jamerson was not fond of the Ampeg B-15. He used the studio's B-15 amp in the Snakepit at Hitsville USA because they made him. His personal live gig rig was a Fender Bassman stack and later he was using a more powerful black tuck & roll Kustom stack, which at the time was the most powerful bass amp on the market. Both rigs had 2x15 cabs. So I think you are pretty much boxed in to using a 15 inch combo. I've played both the 12 inch and 15 inch MarkBass combos. I like them both very much. I use one 15 in my stack now just because I've always had a 15. Under no circumstances would I recommend a new Chinese Ampeg.


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Post subject: Mute
Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:42 pm
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The link to the Felt/Foam thread with photos is here: http://www.fender.com/community/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12617&highlight=felt


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Post subject:
Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:02 pm
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+1 on the Markbass rig.
I'll risk being a bit of a nanny here and say that
when you cut your strings, don't forget a sharp right angle bend BEFORE you snip. Drastically cuts the risk of the string winding slipping around the core. If that happens, your string is dead. It's my personal opinion that people who've had dead strings 'out of the packet' have probably not done this.

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1996 Fender Precision '51 RI, Blond
2004 Fender Precision Std, Black-as-yer-'at
2007 Squier VM Precision TB, sunburst
Markbass CMD121H and ext cab


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Post subject:
Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:18 pm
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Brotherdave, This is the kind of advice I'm looking for. I had no idea the newer Ampegs were made in China... Also, the Markbass combo amp is $1000 - There is a lot you can get out of 1000 bucks, can you tell me more about the amp Telebass? Do you own it yourself? Have you played on it? How does it hold up in different sized venues? How does it compare to other amps of similar costs? etc...

Thanks for the replies!


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Post subject: Re: My 2 cents worth
Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:12 pm
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Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:40 pm
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Location: Eugene Or
BrotherDave:

Very interesting reading..Great info...Didn't know that about the Ampeg amps, I know 2 guys who just bought the medium sized combo. I have an old bassman I just can't part with so I'll stick with that


brotherdave wrote:
If you are talking about James Jamerson's FUNK MACHINE sound then skip the active pickups, you won't need them. I'd be very hesitant to do any mods on this bass as it is widely considered one of the best basses to ever come out of Corona. I wish I had one.

Here are my answers to your questions, lots of which are my opinion and the rest based on personal experience.

1) Would I need to file out the nut for the strings to fit? I did on a 72 Jazz bass to stop the G string and A string from popping out of the nut while playing. On my 76 P-Bass I didn't so, I don't know for sure, but the Labella Jamerson set is much larger.

2) Should I snip the strings at all, or wind up them up whole? Install them normally like Jamerson did. Just like factory installed strings with 2 to 3 wraps showing around the post..

3) Will the heavy gauge La Belle Strings cause my bass to "Bow" and go out of tune? They bowed Mr. Jamerson's bass and my '72 Jazz, then they didn't bow a 76 Precision. Even if it does bow the neck it won't make it "out of tune" as the tuners are adjustable. It might change the intonation though.

4) How do I prevent the bass from going out of tune under such heavy tension? Once tuned the Labella 760's have always been very stable for me.

5) How exactly do I set the action higher? Raise the bridge a little and put more relief in the neck, both of which will require the intonation to be adjusted. I'd get a Fender Certified Tech to do the initial set up.

6) Is there a foam mute substitute I can pick up at an office store (Office Depot) I use just standard packing foam UNDER the strings. This is the same kind of foam you find in microphone cases. Works well. I think you can also buy it at craft stores. I use this foam ONLY for roundwound strings though. On flats I use a felt wrap instead of foam. Do a search in the Precision forum on "FELT" and you should find my post with photos. I find I can remove the felt after about 4 to 6 months, so it isn't a permanent thing and doesn't require any mods to the instrument at all.

7) Should the truss rods be re-tightened as soon as I set the action and tighten the strings? The initial truss rod adjustment would be best made after the initial tuning and raising the bridge . Other truss rod tweaks may be required. Still on an instrument this nice, I'd spend the extra money to get a certified tech to do it.

What kind of portable Ampeg Amp would supplement this bass well but can still fit in the back of a trunk? (I'm looking for a new little portable amp) Since you are going for the Jamerson sound you'll need a 15 inch combo. I have three options for you. 1. The Ampeg BA300/115 which is 300 watts. 2. The Ampeg BA600/115. 3. The Ampeg B200 is 220 Watts, but much heavier than the BA300 or BA600, while the B200 is more "old school" looking and sounding, approximating the sound of a B-15.

BUT...I've used Ampeg as my gig amp since 1970 and I'm hearing of reliability issues with the Chinese Ampegs and apparently serious quality control issues. Therefore my next amp will NOT be an Ampeg. It will be a MarkBass. I would encourage you to try out a MarkBass combo instead of the Ampeg. You can actually get Ampeg-like tones with their combos, plus the MarkBass combos are way lighter and by everyone's account are some very reliable amps. You don't need a horn to get the Jamerson sound, so the Jeff Berlin model combo might be the MarkBass combo for you. Another point in favor of The MarkBass combos is they have extension speaker outputs so you can add an auxiliary 8 ohm cab to ramp up the 300 watt rating with the combo speaker alone to 500 watts with an 8 Ohm extension cab. The reason the Ampeg combos lack an extension speaker jack is because all Ampeg combos come with a 4 Ohm speaker to maximize the output from the 4 Ohm amp without requiring an extension cab.

It is a fact that James Jamerson was not fond of the Ampeg B-15. He used the studio's B-15 amp in the Snakepit at Hitsville USA because they made him. His personal live gig rig was a Fender Bassman stack and later he was using a more powerful black tuck & roll Kustom stack, which at the time was the most powerful bass amp on the market. Both rigs had 2x15 cabs. So I think you are pretty much boxed in to using a 15 inch combo. I've played both the 12 inch and 15 inch MarkBass combos. I like them both very much. I use one 15 in my stack now just because I've always had a 15. Under no circumstances would I recommend a new Chinese Ampeg.


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Post subject:
Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:24 pm
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Delta, I have the version with a 12 and a tweeter, I coudn't get the Jeff Berlin model back then. I use it with an extension cab to give the full 500W which you probably won't need. Yes, they are expensive, on the other hand, a really good condition Ampeg B15 Portaflex (what JJ used) is not likely to cost you much less, and is 1/10th the power. Depends where you're going with this. Are aiming to gig with this sound?

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1996 Fender Precision '51 RI, Blond
2004 Fender Precision Std, Black-as-yer-'at
2007 Squier VM Precision TB, sunburst
Markbass CMD121H and ext cab


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:53 am
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Very informative subject and good luck with the bass.


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Post subject: High action...
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:03 pm
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Please be careful with setting your bass up to high. James was a upright bassist before somebody bought him his first Fender Precision Bass. He was reluctant to even play an electric bass. After he started tracking with a Fender, the rest was history.

Keep in mind James had years of experience with an upright bass with high action. The tension and set-up on the upright lent itself to his bear grip hand strength. I would be careful you don't hurt your hands or tendons in the quest for a sound the is unique as a fingerprint. That doesn't mean you can't get in the tonal ballpark, you just can't wreck your body in the process.
Basically, you can only set the action as high as you can comfortably stand over a moderate period of time. Remember, the longer you play, the bigger toll it will take on you. Most musical set last anywhere from 45 minutes to 1.5 hours in length with minimum breaks (bass players gotta keep the groove moving). Find a compromise that gets the tonal response you want with a functional set-up. Attempting Bernadette with a handicap or newly a acquired injury would be a drag.

Lastly, quite a bit of James sound was how his Fender Precision Bass was recorded. There is a wealth of knowledge (story, gear, & charts) in the book: Hal Leonard Standing in the Shadows of Motown Book/CD. Search and check out this book/CD.


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:56 pm
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Thanks for the heads-up contrabassist. His hand grip was absolutely incredible but I know I could probably never play a gig for an hour under those specific circumstances. I plan to only raise the action just a wee bit higher than the usual set up (and I put a lot of emphasis on wee bit :)


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:15 pm
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+1 on that book - I too must get hold of it soon!

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1996 Fender Precision '51 RI, Blond
2004 Fender Precision Std, Black-as-yer-'at
2007 Squier VM Precision TB, sunburst
Markbass CMD121H and ext cab


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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:15 pm
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Alright, I went out and got a Mexican Fender Precision.

I've read that the heavy La Bella Strings that Jamerson used is soo thick that its cracked a few nuts.

1) Should I invest in a sturdier nut before putting them on?
2) Where can I get a tortoiseshell pick guard like the one on the '62


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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:43 pm
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Try http://www.pickguards.com/


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Post subject:
Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:17 pm
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Why not buy a Fender pickguard? Far more likely to be an accurate fit...
This from experience, I'm not plugging!

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1996 Fender Precision '51 RI, Blond
2004 Fender Precision Std, Black-as-yer-'at
2007 Squier VM Precision TB, sunburst
Markbass CMD121H and ext cab


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Post subject:
Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:16 pm
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I did exactly that. I went and got a Fender Precision 62 Tortoise Shell Pick Guard :) I'm also thinking of getting the Fender Precision 62 pickups to replace the Mexican stock.

The only thing I'm not too sure about is the chrome pickup guard/bridge guard. I don't see any screw slots for those (Do you drill them straight into the bass?


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