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Post subject: precision bass comparison - '54 and '62
Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:18 pm
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Roadie
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Hello,

I have a '54 reissue PBASS (JAPAN) and a '62 vintage reissue PBASS (USA). Seems like the tele bass is much brighter than the '62? Anyone else found this among theirs? Just curious. The basses have:
'54 has tele style pickup with 2 piece bridge
'62 has the split coil with 4 piece bridge

Mike


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Post subject: You are correct
Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:48 pm
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Rock Star
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Location: Albemarle, NC
Hi Mike,

Is that a Flower '54? Wanna sell it?

You are correct in your assessment. The single coil first generation pickups inherently have more upper mids by design due to their lower impedance. On a passive bass pickup the lower the impedance the more the upper midrange is accentuated. Typical impedances on a first generation single coil pickup are in the ballpark of 6.5 K ohms. While the second generation P-bass impedance was much higher at around 10.0 K ohms. The Jazz Bass is in between the two P-bass generation windings with typically an 8K neck pickup and 8.5K bridge pickup.

As a big fan of the first generation P-basses myself I like the brighter sound. But I'm now using a slightly overwound Lindy Fralin SPLIT-COIL first generation P-bass pickup in a '51 reissue and I like it a lot, plus it eliminates the single coil hum. I have a Seymour-Duncan SCPB3 which is the "Quarter Pounder" version for 1st generation P-basses and the one with the large poles in a '54 P-bass. The Fralin Split Coil doesn't have as many upper mids as the SD and it certainly isn't as pretty, but it doesn't hum as much either.

You can order overwound pickups for a first generation bass from many custom winders like Jason Lollar, Rio Grande, Curtis Novak, Hanson Pickups, Lindy Fralin and many others that will sound more like-but not exactly like-a 2nd generation P-bass pickup. Some will overwind your existing pickup for you if you want to use the original but doing that costs about the same as buying a brand new one usually.

Lindy Fralin will trade out your pickup if you don't like the tone within 30 days. With the 30 day exchange policy you can start out slightly overwound and see if that is enough and if it isn't you can send it back and get one overwound even more. His pickups have a ten year warranty also.

Overwinding a first generation P-bass pickup will reduce the upper mids and give you a higher output. I would strongly suggest to anyone going the custom wound route on a first generation P-bass to make sure to get one of the Split Coil versions. They cost more but are definitely worth it because they significantly reduce hum and other interference.

Fralin isn't the only person making Split Coil First Generation P-Bass/Tele Bass pickups, so feel free to look around. I also checked out Curtis Novak's website before deciding to go with Fralin because of the clearly stated exchange "for tonal reasons" policy on the Fralin site.

These Split Coil pickups for 1st generation P-basses run about 120 to 130 dollars. Or you could just sell me your '54 and forget about it. :lol:

Regards,
Dave


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Post subject:
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:15 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Location: Basingstoke, UK
Brotherdave, that is the most informative and well written response I've ever seen on this site.


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Post subject:
Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:33 am
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Roadie
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brotherdave,

How'd you guess? It is a blue flower pbass. But I'm sorry I can't bear to part with such a cool finish. However, if you call Bill's Music (410-747-1900) in Catonsville, Maryland, I have seen one hanging for months on a wall there (up high where people can't get to it). Perhaps they still have it.

Thanks for the awesome information. As a matter of fact, I had the split coil Lindy Fralin you mentioned put in a while back because the low E wasn't beefy enough with the original p-up that came on the '54.

I would also recommend the Fralin '51 split coil- sounds great, beef's up the low E, and no noise (but I still get the electrostatic buzz when I take my hands off the strings, even though I have had the bass grounded every which way).

I love the tone of the '54, although the '62 is my favorite - sounds like an old "grandpa". I don't know how to explain the tone, but thats what it makes me think of. The'62 is much darker in tone than the '54 for sure. If I ever get another bass, I'll get the '62 again.

Do you know from '57 on (when they started looking like the'62 - "strat" peghead, etc., like the '62) had the tone become more like the '62 from then on? Thanks again for the info, it sure helps to understand how the bass's components effect tone.

Mike[/img]


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:22 pm
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Rock Star
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john11.2526@gmail.com wrote:
brotherdave,

Do you know from '57 on (when they started looking like the'62 - "strat" peghead, etc., like the '62) had the tone become more like the '62 from then on? Thanks again for the info, it sure helps to understand how the bass's components effect tone.

Mike[/img]


Yes, the 57 on had the split coil pickups and sounded basically the same. Now since these pickups were hand made by a sweet little lady who made them by the hundreds there can be impedance variances even from pickup to pickup made on the same day. So when I state that the P-Bass pickup impedance was 10K it would vary some but the average would be about 10K. I mean you can't precisely count all those turns by hand!

Another variation was the tone circuits. They would vary based on what capacitors were used in the tone circuits. By this I mean the tone characteristics that occurred when moving the tone pot half open might have varied some but the tonal character of the pickup itself was basically the same. When set wide open to max treble or when turned all the way to full treble off they should sound very much alike.

Thanks for the tip on the '54 Flower Reissue.

Regarding your buzz issue, I'd rule sort of ground problem in your cord or amp first. It also could be that your amp likes a higher impedance pickup. At least I'd rule out the amp before looking back at the instrument. Mine does not buzz at all now since I put in the split coil pickup. Big improvement. You might email Lindy Fralin about it, he may have ran into this before. Also make sure you are using the 0.05 Capacitor. People commonly suggest a Sprague Orange Drop, but I like to find the old ceramic disc caps and use them in these first generation basses. That is what they used in the Telecaster bass and I figured there was a good reason for it.

Regards,
Dave


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:37 pm
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Good info, Dave!


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Post subject: The sweet little lady
Posted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:05 pm
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Rock Star
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Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:12 pm
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Location: Albemarle, NC
I probably should have offered up that the lady who began manually winding the pickups for Leo Fender about 1956 is named Abigail Yberra. She did this till about 1964 for every electric Fender churned out. Fender switched to fully automated winding machines for mass production in 1965. She continued manually scatter winding pickups for all the instruments provided to endorsing artists like Jimi Hendrix. Last I heard she was still working for Fender doing Custom Shop pickups. If you do something well for 52 years you deserve credit for it and I should not have omitted her name. To make up for that, here's a photo of this very important person in all our lives. This is her workstation at the Fender Custom Shop. Notice the pickups all lined up on the counter to her left. I think I see a P-bass pickup there on the left side.

Image


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