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Post subject: Precision 1963 specs
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:40 am
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Hey!
I wonder if anyone can give me some more info about my Pbass. I bought it from a friend who owns a lot of guitars and basses. I did a test drive with this beauty and it was love at first sight! :) Very light weight and plays like butter! Super sustain and a lovely growl! ;)

I know the bass has been refinished. The scratch plate is replaced! Previous color sunburst???
It's been kept playable, wires and soldering can probably be different from original?
The neck says 63. I didn't find numbers on the pots???

If anyone can tell me more about changes or mods I'd be very thankful! :)

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Post subject: Re: Precision 1963 specs
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:25 am
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Hi,

Quick check on the serial number:

"Your guitar was made at the
Fullerton Plant (Fender - Pre CBS Era), USA
in 1959
Production Number: 38749 "


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Post subject: Re: Precision 1963 specs
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:38 am
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Thanks Clipps, but I already checked the serial!
Neck says 63 and the serial gives 59?
Is it possible these parts were assembled later? Or is this something to be worried about?
If this neckplate could be wrong...what about the body, pots and neck?


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Post subject: Re: Precision 1963 specs
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:07 am
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P63 wrote:
Thanks Clipps, but I already checked the serial!
Neck says 63 and the serial gives 59?
Is it possible these parts were assembled later? Or is this something to be worried about?
If this neckplate could be wrong...what about the body, pots and neck?


Yeah, you've got a parts bass, but it's a nice one. Pots are non-original non-CTS. Hope you didn't pay too much.

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Post subject: Re: Precision 1963 specs
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:12 pm
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Thanks for the reply Linnin, but are you sure it's a "parts bass"?
I hoped the parts were made earlier and maybe they assembled it later? Or is that impossible?
How do you know the pots aren't '59 or '63? I saw other vintage Pbasses without numbers on the pots...
I know the bass has been modified...stripped, refinished (in the late 60's?) and the scratch plate isn't original.
Looking at the cables and soldering, I can tell the bass has been kept alive...so that's a sign it's been played...and believe me: it's a real player! :D


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Post subject: Re: Precision 1963 specs
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:19 pm
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The "C" stamped at the end of the neck's date code indicates a custom-order neck that's slightly wider at the nut than standard (a "B" is the normal width).

If that pickguard is not original to the instrument then I'd guess it was a repro made by Chandler since they're the only modern company that ever got the tortoise-shell colors right.

Nice bass!

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Precision 1963 specs
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:21 pm
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The bass does have a lot of non-conforming issues, but it sounds like it rocks.

As far as originality, there are a number of issues besides the pots (I would like to know what it says on the bottom of the volume pot) and the wiring of course is not correct. The cap is wrong, the pickguard is not correct, the shielding does not extend far enough. I don't see the body wear as being possible, so I assume the "aging" was part of the refin. The decal is not correct. Notice the n-d-e in Fender are not connected, this would represent an earlier bass. And so on....

My biggest concern is the body itself. Look under the pickguard and see if you can see a few 1/16" inch holes in the bass surface. Note: they may have been filled during the refinish, but hopefully still visible. Starting in 1962, Fender started attaching a "paint stick" in the neck pocket. Basses finished after that typically have an unpainted strip down the left edge of the neck pocket. Prior to that, they actually placed nails into the face under the PG area. They would paint the front of the bass, turn it upside down so it rested on those nails, and then paint the back. I have seen 63s done both ways. Either way, I would have expected to see some original finish in the neck pocket. (and it could just be my old eyes vs your picture, so don't take my word for it)

If the body and neck are real, and I mean the wood, not decals or hardware, you still have a nice little investment. So look for those nail holes. From there, add back the value of any parts that are real. I have not looked at the hardware.

If you want to know all about your bass, visit www.gruhnguitars.com and click on appraisals. You can submit pictures (it is all explained) and they will review them and tell you what they see, and put an approximate value on it. It is important to take clear and meaningful pictures, in addition to those posted here. I think the charge is $50, but don't quote me.

Enjoy the bass!! It sounds like an awesome player!

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Post subject: Re: Precision 1963 specs
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:07 am
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Parts bass. Sum of parts somewhat valuable but only IF ORIGINAL. Neck far and away worth the most if original and second most valuable would be the neckplate and body. In fact the neckplate is possibly more valuable than the body. Bridge is correct but not sure if original or reproduction bridge since it looks so pristine. Same exact story with the tuners. Both the bridge and tuners look chrome plated and I'd rather be seeing nickle. The body and neck would have had to be completely disassembled for refinishing and parts could have been changed then. Pity about the repro decal, pots, cap and pickguard which are for sure not original and pity the pickup/bridge covers and screws are missing in action along with the tugbar/finger rest and we do not know about the case. Can not say about the pickup but the pickup leads are encouragingly original vintage looking but you'd have to remove the pickups from the foam to read the backs to confirm and even then no guarantee the markings would still be readable enough to date them. Possibly more trouble and danger in checking for pickup codes than it is worth to know.

The neck is without much doubt not original to the neckplate. While there can be dating discrepancies between necks and neckplates, 4 years is just too long for me to be comfortable with the neck being original to the neckplate. .

Fender only used smooth shafted Stackpole and CTS pots in Fullerton P-basses and they all have lot numbers on them beginning 137 for CTS and 304 for Stackpole. The pots in your example are either fluted shaft or split shaft. I do not know what the origin of these pots are but they are neither CTS nor Stackpole and I suspect they are Asian. The other vintage Fenders you saw without pot codes or lot numbers also had non-original pots. The original volume/tone knobs would have set screws and would be an improper fit if there are split shaft pots in that bass, so I'm wondering if those knobs are original or not since I can not see the set screw holes.

There is nothing wrong with playing a parts bass, I'd play it and enjoy it, but would always wonder why the decal was changed. The font on the heel stamping looks genuine, but I'd be skeptical until someone who knows for sure authenticates it. I also suggest George Gruhn. You will need high resolution photos for that. His link for online appraisals is: https://guitars.com/appraisals

People change necks on basses around. It is quite common, but they usually don't put on a repro decal. Why in the world that happened makes me a skeptic until proven genuine.


Last edited by brotherdave on Fri Apr 22, 2016 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Precision 1963 specs
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:41 am
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Thanks Brotherdave and Affprod for all the info!
When I've got some time to kill I'll remove the strings and take it apart... Who knows what more you guys gonna see?? :) Super!!!
I'm certainly gonna talk to the guy I bought it from and listen to what he's got to say about all the things you uncovered.... ;)

Greetings!


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Post subject: Re: Precision 1963 specs
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 7:24 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
The "C" stamped at the end of the neck's date code indicates a custom-order neck that's slightly wider at the nut than standard (a "B" is the normal width).

That's incorrect. It's actually the other way round. The vast majority of Precision necks from the early 60s onwards (neck dates changed from handwritten to stamped in spring 1962) have 'C' width. 'B' width only took over as standard around 1968.

Here are a few pics from my (early) 1964 Precision for comparison:

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Last edited by liverbird on Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Precision 1963 specs
Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:59 pm
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Thanks 4 the info Liverbird and...wowwww...those pics!!! droooooooolllllllll :P
I noticed that decal also has the n-d-e unattached? But mine is probably replaced? :roll:
Nice to see those numbers on the pots...
Knobs look like the same? :|

PS:
I bought my bass because I fell in love with the sound and feel of that bass... It has some serious mojo when I play it...
I use it both on stage and in the studio... I'm not a collector, but a player... The fact that these basses are a good investment played in my mind, but is not the main reason I bought it...

Grtz


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Post subject: Re: Precision 1963 specs
Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:36 pm
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P63, I'm not sure what affprod is referring to with regards to the not connected n-d-e on the decal - any spaghetti-style logo (which you'd expect on a '63 Precision) would be that way.

However, an original logo on a '63 would normally also have three PAT and one DES number.

I agree with affprod that it's worth checking - even on a refin - for nail holes to help with authenticating the body. They will likely have been filled in during refinishing but it's possible you can still see their outline. There should be three of them - one next to the neck pocket, one next to the control cavity (you can see it in my last pic) and one underneath the bridge.

Let us know how you get on!


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Post subject: Re: Precision 1963 specs
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:27 am
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Hey!
More pics... :wink: Maybe it leads to some more info?
Didn't find those nail holes :|

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Greetings


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Post subject: Re: Precision 1963 specs
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:44 pm
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Can you read any of the black stamping other than "18" on the back of either of the pickup bottoms? In the photo I can only make out "18." First two digits (18) are the ID number of the winder. The next two digits after that would be the calendar week (01 through 52.) The final two digits the calendar year (63, 64, 65, etc.) Often one half was wound by one Fender winder while the other half wound by someone else, so if the ID numbers do not match up you should not panic. The two halves are frequently not made exactly the same week either but usually within a few weeks of each other.


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Post subject: Re: Precision 1963 specs
Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:07 pm
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I tried to copy the photos to blow them up, but for some reason I can not do that. Now the more I look at them the worse they get. But I do believe the first two digits are "12" now, not "18" as I originally thought. Check the other pickup half and see if the stamping is clearer.


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