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Post subject: Re: Why didn't Jaguar's catch on?
Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:53 pm
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stringslinger01 wrote:
What specifically about the bridge was junk? I'm thinking about buying a jaguar, probably a blacktop series


The strings have woefully insufficient break-angle as they cross the saddles -- try a Pete Townsend powerchord on a Jag (or a Jazzmaster) and the strings will be jumping right out of the saddles quicker than Hillary Clinton unassing an NRA rally. Likewise, notes decay rather quickly because of the unnecessarily exaggerated distance between the bridge and the tailpiece. Both of these issues were addressed (successfully) with the updated Classic Player Jazzmaster which, while still a bit on the hefty side, is a fine instrument nonetheless. If Fender offered a CP Jazzmaster in Ocean Turquoise Metallic or Sea Foam Green, I'd have one now......

(anybody at Corona listening......?)

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Why didn't Jaguar's catch on?
Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:10 pm
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stringslinger01 wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
johnjaypl wrote:
Why didn't the Jaguar catch on?


It's several pounds heavier than a Strat or Tele, the short scale had limited player appeal, the switching system is overly complex, and the bridge is junk.

It had great visual vibe though.

Arjay

What specifically about the bridge was junk? I'm thinking about buying a jaguar, probably a blacktop series


I don't know about the Jag's BT bridge but IMHO the Jazzmaster BT's bridge is junk. I bought one at GC and it had popped out of the saddles by the time it got home. I had to unstring the guitar, completely disassemble and reassemble the bridge, starting a neutral heights for everything. Unless the entire bridge is set high, when the height adjusters for the individual strings are set, the intonation screw hits the string! After two hours I got it set up. To keep from making this TOO long I brought it back and traded it against a Jazzmaster CP with the Gibson-style bridge. It was set up PERFECTLY and I love the thing. However, every Jag BT I've seen has been very nice--but I have only played them in the stores.


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Post subject: Re: Why didn't Jaguar's catch on?
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 12:53 am
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The Jaguars did in fact catch on and were quite famous in the 1990's Seattle Grunge Sound, especially with bands like Nirvana whose frontman Kurt Cobain used his battered '65 Jaguar. However, Jaguars were very expensive for their debut and many people clung to their traditional strats, teles, musicmasters and duo sonics. An alternative to the Jags are the Mustangs which are my personal favorite...


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Post subject: Re: Why didn't Jaguar's catch on?
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:55 pm
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Re: Why didn't Jaguar's catch on?

Short answer? Fender didn't and still doesn't understand the market for this model.


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Post subject: Re: Why didn't Jaguar's catch on?
Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:16 pm
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brucefulton wrote:
Re: Why didn't Jaguar's catch on?

Short answer? Fender didn't and still doesn't understand the market for this model.


Perhaps it's because there simply isn't much of a market for them.

For every Jag sold (regardless of model or country of origin), three or four hundred Strats and Teles are purchased.

Elementary market-demand economics.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Why didn't Jaguar's catch on?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:50 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
brucefulton wrote:
Re: Why didn't Jaguar's catch on?

Short answer? Fender didn't and still doesn't understand the market for this model.


Perhaps it's because there simply isn't much of a market for them.

For every Jag sold (regardless of model or country of origin), three or four hundred Strats and Teles are purchased.

Elementary market-demand economics.

Arjay


Which brings us back to marketing.


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Post subject: Re: Why didn't Jaguar's catch on?
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 9:21 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
The strings have woefully insufficient break-angle as they cross the saddles -- try a Pete Townsend powerchord on a Jag (or a Jazzmaster) and the strings will be jumping right out of the saddles quicker than Hillary Clinton unassing an NRA rally. Likewise, notes decay rather quickly because of the unnecessarily exaggerated distance between the bridge and the tailpiece. :mrgreen:

Arjay

Personally, I've never had any issues with the vintage stock Jaguar bridge - works fine for me. I would highly recommend getting a "Buzz Stop" tailpiece, which increases the downward angle from the bridge and helps eliminate saddle buzz.

Image


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Post subject: Re: Why didn't Jaguar's catch on?
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2011 6:31 pm
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Can't imagine this would be appropriate for a new MIM jag -- they've already moved the trem assem closer to the bridge, redesigned the bridge saddles and increased the neck angle, all which increase down-pressure on the bridge. I hear good things about the buzz stop for original and CIJ Jag/JM, but it looks like this could cause major problems on the new MIM jags. The exit angle on the bridge would be extremely severe. Would love to hear from anyone who has actually tried it on a new MIM.

audiodrome wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
The strings have woefully insufficient break-angle as they cross the saddles -- try a Pete Townsend powerchord on a Jag (or a Jazzmaster) and the strings will be jumping right out of the saddles quicker than Hillary Clinton unassing an NRA rally. Likewise, notes decay rather quickly because of the unnecessarily exaggerated distance between the bridge and the tailpiece. :mrgreen:

Arjay

Personally, I've never had any issues with the vintage stock Jaguar bridge - works fine for me. I would highly recommend getting a "Buzz Stop" tailpiece, which increases the downward angle from the bridge and helps eliminate saddle buzz.



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Post subject: Re: Why didn't Jaguar's catch on?
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:40 pm
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You could just file the saddles down a bit so the strings sit deeper, it was a popular mod on the original Jags and Jazzes.

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Post subject: Re: Why didn't Jaguar's catch on?
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:09 pm
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But of course!

Then unass all those worthless switches and pots that add little to the guitar's appeal and take a router and hog out about three unnecessary pounds of alder beneath the pickguard to get the guitar down to a manageable seven or eight pounds.

Right......everybody's up for that after spending two large for a brand-new guitar!

:lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Why didn't Jaguar's catch on?
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:55 pm
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if you're gonna go to that trouble then buy a Strat.
if you want a Jag and quite enjoy the switches and aren't such a weakling then it's a great guitar.
it's considerably lighter and more comfortable than a Les Paul, but they seem to have caught on somewhat.

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Post subject: Re: Why didn't Jaguar's catch on?
Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:14 pm
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Updating this thread:

Fender is bringing out two new offset models, both very reasonably priced.

The new Marauder is basically a Jazzmaster body, neck and neck pickup, with a Strat bridge and trem and a new triple humbucker bridge pickup--and MSRP is less than $600!

Squier is releasing the new J.Mascis Jazzmaster in white with a gold pickguard. It's pretty similar to a CP although the bridge is reversed, the trem doesn't lock and the truss rod is adjusted from the headstock, not the neck pocket. Early reviews are that it's awesome and doesn't have the neck finish problems many Squiers have. Street price is $380. 95% of a Classic Player for 45% of the price!

Now why would Fender be bringing these out if they didn't think people would want to buy them? Interest is offsets is growing.

The friend I mentioned a few months ago went and bought a used Jag from the 70's. Haven't been able to get in touch to find out how he likes it.

I KNOW my CP is heavier than my Strat. But the balance and position when I'm standing or sitting is just better and better balanced.


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Post subject: Re: Why didn't Jaguar's catch on?
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:37 am
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Good question.

Well they're obviously catching on now... witness all the newer models.

For me it was always a $ thing, still is, which is why I put together my own, an AVRI/CP cross and it's by far the most comfortable and tone-ful guitar I've owned, and lighter than my Squier Jagmaster, or my old Burns Bison (by far!).

It seems most people like Jag's for the look or the sound, and to my eye a Jag without at least the original trem set up looks wrong, and that same trem with the excess string length going to a metal plate over a cavity is a big part of the sound.

I think if the Trem had been moved forward like on the Classic Player, way back in the 60's then Jag's may have been more popular, and as for the bridge issues, well I read about people having vibration problems even with the CP bridge, and don't think a TOM/AOM bridge looks right on a Jag anyway, so I put a standard Jag bridge on, no problems, no constant adjustments or buzzes, no strings jumping out of saddles, that trem being 1/2" or so closer to the bridge makes all the difference, once the trem & bridge are set up correctly you don't need to give them much thought.

As for "incomprehensible" or "useless" controls, I guess it depends on your ear and your playing style/s, I use all settings on mine from clean/Jazzmaster-ish to dirty/Jag growl, with Strat, Tele, and other tones available with a mix of switch and vol/tone settings, rarely needing to change amp settings, certainly not a one-trick pony, easily the most versatile guitar I've owned, a real classic player's guitar. 8)


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Post subject: Re: Why didn't Jaguar's catch on?
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:53 am
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brucefulton wrote:
Can't imagine this would be appropriate for a new MIM jag -- they've already moved the trem assem closer to the bridge, redesigned the bridge saddles and increased the neck angle, all which increase down-pressure on the bridge. I hear good things about the buzz stop for original and CIJ Jag/JM, but it looks like this could cause major problems on the new MIM jags. The exit angle on the bridge would be extremely severe. Would love to hear from anyone who has actually tried it on a new MIM.

audiodrome wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
The strings have woefully insufficient break-angle as they cross the saddles -- try a Pete Townsend powerchord on a Jag (or a Jazzmaster) and the strings will be jumping right out of the saddles quicker than Hillary Clinton unassing an NRA rally. Likewise, notes decay rather quickly because of the unnecessarily exaggerated distance between the bridge and the tailpiece. :mrgreen:

Arjay

Personally, I've never had any issues with the vintage stock Jaguar bridge - works fine for me. I would highly recommend getting a "Buzz Stop" tailpiece, which increases the downward angle from the bridge and helps eliminate saddle buzz.



Buzz Stop will not fit the MIM CP JAG anyway. Trem to bridge distance does not leave enough room for the BuzzStop. States that on their site as well.
As for the break angle, if the Buzz Stop did fit, I don't think the break angle would be any more extreme that that of a Tele or Strat which exits straight through the body!!


Art


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Post subject: Re: Why didn't Jaguar's catch on?
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:49 pm
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Quote:
Well they're obviously catching on now...


You'll know they "catched on" when you post about them in a Fender forum that's not
titled "All other Fender guitars."

Thanks for all the answers folks, I think I understand now.

John


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