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Post subject: Questions on modern MIM guitars
Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 3:28 pm
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I haven't shopped for a guitar in almost 20 years (I'm just getting back into playing after about a decade off), and have always wanted either a jaguar or jazzmaster style guitar. Today, i had the opportunity in a shop to test a classic player jaguar and a blacktop jazzmaster. I was disappointed with the feel and quality of both guitars.

What's surprising to me is that my frame of reference is my '89 korean squier II stratocaster, which was my first guitar I got new as a gift in about '90. I also got a new '90 or '91 Epiphone Les Paul Custom, also made in Korea. The squier is definitely my favorite guitar although the LP plays faster and easier. I love both guitars. The stratocaster has had a full electronic redo with quality pickups while the LP is all original.

I don't think Fender was making guitars in Mexico back then; has the quality simply dropped off in general in the last 2 decades? Or are Mexican guitars generally of low quality? Both my guitars have nitro lacquer finishes throughout, my understanding is that most guitars are polyurethane nowadays? Is that part of the feel?

Or am I just imagining things given I have a 20 year history with my guitars and anything new or different is going to feel worse and my guitars are well set up to my playing predilections? Perhaps these new guitars will grow on me with time?

Thanks for any helpful opinions - I'm not trying to bash MIM guitars; I just don't have a ton of recent experience playing different guitars and I imagine manufacturing has changed a bit in 2 decades. I also don't have a ton of time nor any musician friends so trying a ton of other guitars is not much of any option. I'd like to buy perhaps the classic player jazz if it would grow on me feel-wise but don't want to find myself favoring the squier after such a purchase.


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Post subject: Re: Questions on modern MIM guitars
Posted: Tue May 17, 2011 6:02 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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In my limited experience of about 10 MIM Fenders I've owned, from about 1994 to present......all have been good quality instruments. Other than the new road worn series, MIM Fender's have never used nitro lacquer. In fact, even the USA American standard model fenders have not used nitro lacquer in about, oh.......40 years. What specifically felt wrong on the guitars you played? What specifically seemed low quality? A different setup may suit your style better :D Although I love older guitars, I think guitars made today are very good. I will say this though, I do not agree on the prices of some of the more expensive MIM fenders....like the Mustang, CP Jaguar and CP Jazzmaster reissues! Way too expensive.


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Post subject: Re: Questions on modern MIM guitars
Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 8:34 am
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What felt low quality? Well, for one neither guitar would stay in tune for any appreciable time (I was testing out the tremolos, having never used that style before, but certainly no aggressively). any bends or use of the tremolo made that "creaking" sound of the strings laboring through the nut slots. The polepieces on bridge pickup on the jazzmaster didn't come close to lining up with the two E strings, and were slightly off on the other four.

The rest was purely subjective, I'll admit - my squier stratocaster is a "$150" guitar, my epiphone LP was probably $600 back in the early 90's and the same guitars seem to go for about the same now (although having seen the new ones I can tell mine is of higher quality) and like the poster above said - $800 for that CP Jag seemed way overpriced. And the Blacktop is missing so many desired features that even $450 seems way high for what you get. My experience with overseas Fenders and Squiers has taught me that many parts ought to be swapped out eventually to make a quality guitar (tuners, pickups) and I'm not inclined to spend $800 for a CP Jazz only to spend another $200 on tuners and pickups - I may as well get a US jazz then...and then I've blown way through the budget.

The bodies were certainly nicely finished, I should say.


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Post subject: Re: Questions on modern MIM guitars
Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 11:23 am
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Aspiring Musician
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All guitars need a "break in" period. New guitars need to be played, and allowed time to settle in. New strings and a quick dab of graphite in the nut slots just might fix the tuning issues. Many MIM guitars use the exact same tuners as the American models, so the "quality" of the tuners is not the issue. Until the nut slots wear in (or are tweaked by a skilled person), no tuners, regardless of price or quality will hold tune.....especially with use of a tremolo. I own some of the first MIM Fenders, and some very recent ones. I don't think the quality has gone down. They have always made good and bad ones.....but overall their quality has been fairly consistent. You could just pony up and buy American ;) You won't regret it! :D


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Post subject: Re: Questions on modern MIM guitars
Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 11:35 pm
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pf001 wrote:
I don't think Fender was making guitars in Mexico back then; has the quality simply dropped off in general in the last 2 decades? Or are Mexican guitars generally of low quality? Both my guitars have nitro lacquer finishes throughout, my understanding is that most guitars are polyurethane nowadays? Is that part of the feel?

Or am I just imagining things given I have a 20 year history with my guitars and anything new or different is going to feel worse and my guitars are well set up to my playing predilections? Perhaps these new guitars will grow on me with time?


I've got a 2006 MIM that's the nicest electric guitar I've played in about 45 years of experience.... Bought it because I couldn't stand to put it back on the rack...

Some MIM models are more expensive than MIAs... some are less expensive...

Which are "best" depends on what feels good to the player...

My strat has the "Modern "C" neck, and my son's Squire has the classic "C" profile... He likes the fatter neck and I enjoy the skinny one...

Polyurethane finishes are pretty much the norm these days... Some companies put on such a thin layer that the wood resonates like it was bare.. and some slop it on... Doesn't seem to matter much on a solid body, but a nice finish just feels better to me...

Quality doesn't come from just one factory, nor does it necessarily match the asking price... even among Fender models...

Quite often you're paying more for a name or some extra glitter than you're getting in return.

They may have had the Best Day Ever in Mexico when my guitar was made, but the other happy MIM owners have me convinced that they do a pretty good there every day of the week
...

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Post subject: Re: Questions on modern MIM guitars
Posted: Sat May 21, 2011 11:55 am
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I just got back into playing after a 46 year hiatus. Back in the mid 60's, I owned a 1964 Jaguar in sunburst with a hard shell blond case purchased new, and a new Super Reverb amp. Like an idiot (youth), I sold both in 1966. Then in early March of this year, I started seriously considering a '62 re-issue Jaguar, a Classic Player MIM Jaguar, and a Classic Player MIM Jazzmaster. I willowed these down to the two CP MIM Fenders and settled on the CP Jaguar because of the smaller scale size and a few other factors, not to mention having owned an original. My new CP MIM Jaguar came in the last week of March and I am loving it.

The fit and finish are superb as is the feel and playability. It had tended to stray from tune quite a bit but has also settled down quite a bit and is much better about this then when I first received it. I attribute this to the strings (perhaps not nearly as good as American strings) and more than likely the woods used in the guitar. Judging from the condition of my CP Jag, I would bet it was made very close to the time it was shipped. A guitar this new is going to have some seasoning and settling of the woods used in the neck and body which in turn, will affect the ability to stay in tune. As I said it is much better than it was two months ago.

I had the opportunity a week ago to checkout a new '62 re-issue Jaguar and frankly, my CP Jaguar actually feels a little better. The 9.5" radius with a more exaggerated "C" shaped neck in the rear better suits my left hand. I am very happy with my CP Jaguar (yes, it is sunburst) and am not one bit sorry I took the decision to order it, and would do it again.


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Post subject: Re: Questions on modern MIM guitars
Posted: Mon May 23, 2011 10:37 pm
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I have owned a few MIM Fenders since 1998 and theyve all been great guitars. i presently have a 2009 (i think) 1972 Thinline re-issue in natural and it is a truly amazing sounding and playing guitar. the sounds that come out of my big Traynor tube amp when the Thinline is being played through it are truly amazing.


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Post subject: Re: Questions on modern MIM guitars
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:36 pm
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So I ended up actually taking the plunge on a CP Jazzmaster over memorial day - got an online retailer to beat Guitar Center, who was having a 15% off sale and so I got the CP for little more than the Blacktops cost. A No Brainer, since they offer 30 day no questions money back.

The guitar is great. Way better than the one i tried in the store, perhaps because it arrived completely factory sealed from Fender (no months of careless try outs by potential buyers). I don't even think it needs any action/truss adjustment, it feels so good - better than my old beloved strat I've had 20 years to tweak to my liking...Only issue was really poorly height-adjusted pickups, one was totally diagonal - but that was an easy fix.

Pickups are a little too hot for my taste, considering what I expected out of a Jazzmaster, but I find the volume knob better than other guitars at moderating the output while keeping tones I like. I'll replace

So the only other question is this - I have noticed after a week of playing that there appears to be a ~1 x 3 mm patch of seemingly missing clear coat at one of the corners of the outer part of the neck pocket - you see it every time you play the instrument, if you know where it is. It's in the pure black area of the sunburst so not visible at first look.

Am I expecting too much from Mexico? Is a "perfect" guitar too much to ask for? I can always have a replacement sent out for free but as I said above, having literally not bought a guitar in almost 20 years I have no context for expected quality control these days...

It is also shielded or grounded very poorly and hums a lot with volume up (but I'm keeping it at 2-4 anyway to moderate the pickups) but I can fix that with some wiring work.


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Post subject: Re: Questions on modern MIM guitars
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:20 pm
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Steve-oh-no wrote:
MIM fenders....like the Mustang, CP Jaguar and CP Jazzmaster reissues! Way too expensive.


It's Japanese, bro, Japanese.

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Post subject: Re: Questions on modern MIM guitars
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:46 pm
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MIM these days are really great, cheap too.

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Post subject: Re: Questions on modern MIM guitars
Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:49 am
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I had a MIM strat (bought new in 2001) and recently traded it in on a new MIM blacktop tele - both were of excellent quality.

My tele has no finish flaws such as you described - and I never saw any on my strat either.

That said, I probably wouldn't have noticed anything so small as you described so I can't say for sure about the strat. I just did carefully examine my tele and didn't see any.

If it was me, and considering that it sounds like you do like the guitar and did get an excellent deal on it, I would keep it.

However if this is something that will bother you every time you play then yes, do get a replacement because you will never bond with the guitar otherwise.


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Post subject: Re: Questions on modern MIM guitars
Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:46 pm
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pf001 wrote:
Or are Mexican guitars generally of low quality?


Yes, that.

Go with JAPAN made.

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Post subject: Re: Questions on modern MIM guitars
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:56 am
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I recently bought an MIM Tele at a local dealer. I bought it over the MIA Highway 1 Tele that I had gone there to look at. The MIM just felt like it was made for my hand, the finish is flawless on it (candy apple red, btw) and it sounded great. I've played it more than my Strat since I got it.

So, IMO, the Mexican-made Fenders are very nice indeed. I've found that they use many American-made parts in them anyway and you gotta figure that since the 'Fender' name is going on them, their quality control is quite good. Browse through these forums and you'll find many MIM players that praise them highly.

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Post subject: Re: Questions on modern MIM guitars
Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:46 am
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Gotta say it again. My MIM CP Jaguar is a joy to play. Both the CP Jag and Jazz have slightly hotter pups than the reissues, and Fender makes that clear in the description. Been 10 months now and still and she is still a joy. No rough or bald spots in the finish either. Flawless.

Art


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Post subject: Re: Questions on modern MIM guitars
Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:15 pm
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I have 3 MIM Fenders and the playibility,build quality,materials and the sound especially are definitely top notch.I find that the quality is way above that of other guitars in their price range.Maybe the store that you tried them at didn't do a proper set up of them as to find 2 MIMs side by side with so many issues is strange indeed.As you know a lot of the Saturday afternoon test pilot/shredders aren't very careful about how they handle guitars that are within easy reach so it's pretty common to see a guitar that's put all out of whack.

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