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Post subject: Jazzmaster vs Jaguar pickups
Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:41 am
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Hello Fender community,

I'm having a dillema here. Actually, my wife is. I hope someone can help us out...

She bought a 2008 MIM Classic Player Jazzmaster which she LOVES the sound of, but the jumbo frets and neck don't seem to like when she puts a capo on - it tends to go a bit out of tune. I assume this is the result of the type of frets/neck on this model. It plays great otherwise, just hates a capo.

We were wondering about putting another neck on it but then we saw this lovely '99 USA Jaguar (a '62 reissue) and this one plays wonderfully for her, but the sound is just not there anymore; we suspect the pickups.

The Jag and Jazzy are both stock I think, the main difference would be that the Jazz has "hotter" pickups, so I'm wondering more about those Jazzy PUPs now. I can't find enough info on them. I guess we just wanna find that same sound for the Jaguar if possible.

Would it just be down to finding the same resistance PUPs to get the same sound? I don't know the resistance on the hot Jazz PUPs anyway.

We don't want to hack or carve out the Jaguar to fit a humbucker. It would be great to find something that fits the single coil space that's already there.

Link to the Jazzmaster: http://www.fender.com/products/search.p ... 0141600300
(We have the one in black :)
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Here's the Jag we just got :)
Image
It's got a different bridge on, plua the buzz stop was taken off.


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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:47 am
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I have both the MIM Classic Player Jaguar and Jazzmaster and love them both. I never knew the Jaguar had a shorter neck (than even the Strat) and the Jazzmaster's is actually a longer scale neck.

I'd equate the Jazzmaster pickups somewhat to P-90s to some degree. They do give off a mellower sound than the Jaguar (those pickups/pots are hot)!

On the Jag, I make sure I use an EQ in line, or looped, to cut some of the highs and beef up the bass response a little bit. It really helps with the dynamics of the sound.

However, the Jazzmaster pickups are the ones I prefer ... both guitars, by the way, are GREAT (the best) for surf music!!!


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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:30 am
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Have you tried different capos on your Jazzmaster? The Classic Player's model has a flatter fretboard than the traditional re-issues (9½" vs 7¼" IIRC). You might find better luck using a capo intended for Gibson-type neck.

HTH

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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:41 pm
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Actually, I haven't used a capo in maybe 30-40 years!!! I've just never used them, BUT, I can understand your concern with jumbo frets. And YES, it will alter the tuning.

I don't know how technically advanced capos have become, but are there any out there where you can control the tension, such as with a thumb screw or something? If not, maybe we can invent one!!!

All you need is just enough pressure to have the strings make contact with the fret, and, there has to be enough tension to hold it (the capo) in place.

BUT regardless of capos, both Fender J's are fun guitars!


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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:10 pm
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Thanks for the replies there guys :)

Retroverbial wrote:
Have you tried different capos on your Jazzmaster? The Classic Player's model has a flatter fretboard than the traditional re-issues (9½" vs 7¼" IIRC). You might find better luck using a capo intended for Gibson-type neck.

HTH


We have tried 3 different capos on it now and it's always the same. Even with adjustable tension capos (so as not to press down so far onto the fretboard) - the problem is always the same.

There is no such problem on the Jaguar, our acoustic guitars, my SG epiphone, the Fender Mustang we had before that. I am thinking this is a specific problem related to the curve of the neck, but perhaps mostly, the jumbo frets on the jazzmaster.

:(


so, i think the next step is to just find the right pickups to put in the Jaguar to get that sound we love on the Jazzy.
There is nothing specific about the PUPS in the Jazz we bought though, other than "hotter".


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Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:43 pm
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A lot of guitars need a bit of fine tuning when a capo is put on as even the smallest bit of twisting when putting it on will cause it to go sharp or flat on some strings.I always retune and adjust the capo when I put it on.I believe that Fender makes/made a Jagmaster model that was a combo of both but I don't what parts of each were on the guitar.

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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:13 pm
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There's a ShortScale .com site which talks about this in great detail.

Personally, 'like the narrow frets on both Jag and JM.


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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:16 pm
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a link to the shortscale site would be nice? :)

BTW, we've decided to get some seymour duncan SJAG3 pickups and see how they sound in the Jaguar.


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Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:48 pm
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guitslinger wrote:
A lot of guitars need a bit of fine tuning when a capo is put on

yeah, but in the case of this one guitar I'm talking about a VERY significant amount of tuning! as i hinted at before, the amount this goes out of tune is a great deal more than any of the other guitar we've ever owned.


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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 4:48 pm
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Who won the Jazzmaster contest?

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Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:34 pm
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1111michael2222 wrote:
Who won the Jazzmaster contest?


no idea what you're talking about there mate.


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Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:29 pm
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http://www.shortscale.org

i don't believe the frets on the guitar are not causing it to go out of tune when capo'd. does it do it when the tremolo unit is locked?

do you use the trem unit at all? does it go out of tune then? are these new strings?

jazzmasters have floating bridges, so any change in string tension can effect tuning stability.

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Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2010 10:27 pm
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it makes no difference if the trem is locked or not.
most of the time i use it locked (so it only bends low), but either way it behaves the same.

I can use the trem up and down and it still keeps in great tune.

it just goes horribly out of tune whenever i put a capo on it!!!

i put new strings on it just 3 weeks ago and it hasn't helped.
there's just something wrong with this version of the jazzy perhaps.

I wish I could compare it to another of these exact guitars but I haven't seen one in the shops here. nobody has one in my area that i know of. I'd like to think this is an issue with just my guitar since I haven't heard of this problem anywhere else, but when I showed it to a luthier, he was the one that basically spelt it out to me that it was the jumbo frets and fretboard. I can only assume he's right, since this is not a problem on any of my other guitars.


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Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:01 pm
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A couple of things might help with your capo issue:

1) Make sure your intonation is set correctly. If your guitar is not properly intonated, then it will never be in tune when you play higher up the neck. It isn't as noticeable when you are noodling around playing lead guitar stuff up the neck, usually because single notes don't really have to stay in tune with other notes. Add a capo to an improperly intonated guitar and it sounds horrible, and the bad intonation is much more pronounced. My advice is to find a make and gauge of string you like (I like Ernie Ball Power Slinkys), tune and intonate properly (using the directions for a TOM bridge that the CP Jazz has), and never ever change your brand and gauge of string for that guitar. That usually solves the problem.

2) Check out a high quality capo. Most capos out on the market are spring-loaded and force the strings down harder, pulling them out of tune. I prefer the G7th Capo (http://www.g7th.com/capos/performance). It allows you to put even pressure on the strings without forcing them down all the time.

Before I did these two things, I had horrible tuning issues with a capo and never, ever used them. Now I use my capo all the time.

Hope that helps!

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Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 8:14 pm
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chrisvstar wrote:
it makes no difference if the trem is locked or not.
most of the time i use it locked (so it only bends low), but either way it behaves the same.

I can use the trem up and down and it still keeps in great tune.

it just goes horribly out of tune whenever i put a capo on it!!!

i put new strings on it just 3 weeks ago and it hasn't helped.
there's just something wrong with this version of the jazzy perhaps.

I wish I could compare it to another of these exact guitars but I haven't seen one in the shops here. nobody has one in my area that i know of. I'd like to think this is an issue with just my guitar since I haven't heard of this problem anywhere else, but when I showed it to a luthier, he was the one that basically spelt it out to me that it was the jumbo frets and fretboard. I can only assume he's right, since this is not a problem on any of my other guitars.


And BTW, your luthier needs to get his head checked. There are hundreds of jumbo frets on the market now. Look at the entire Strat/Tele lineup! None of those have tuning issues with a capo when they're set up properly. My Casino has jumbos and is perfect even when I capo the 13th fret. Most new guitars come stock with big frets, unless they're vintage vibe or vintage reissue or something. Personally I've never run into a single guitar where the fret size has anything to with the tuning, as long as it is properly set up. A straight neck, intonated guitar should tune up at every fret, floating bridge or not. I used to set my Strat up to float and could use a capo just fine.

My thinking is that it is probably the intonation, based on what you told me. A lazy or preoccupied "luthier" won't have really checked because generally Fenders come pretty well set up. I always double check by tuning it up, capoing at the 12th fret and writing down which strings go sharp, go flat, or tune great. I adjust the bridge accordingly, tune up, and repeat until the capo at the 12th fret is in tune, as well as being in tune overall.

To cap it off I just play open chords capoed across the neck at different positions, just to make sure they sound good to my ear. It might take a while, but it will probably fix your issue

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2001 "Firewood" ES-335
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Vox AC4TV/V112TV
Voice
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