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Post subject: Anyone seen a TORONADO like this?
Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:28 am
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I'd especially like to know something about the pickups, as i can't identify them (apart from being SD), I'll post this into the SD forums, too. But having searched this Board for a while to find my guitar in here I thought some people may be interested. It's made in Korea, but instead of paint and L-Stripes has glossy finish over beautiful mahagony veneer.

neck is solid, opposed to the usual korean ones which afaik are bolt-on.

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cheers,

pip

/e: I know it's dirty... i initially chose it for it's sound, not the optics :)


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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:51 am
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Interesting guitar..

The pickups are P90s - you'll find them on the SD site.

Did you say it was a set neck rather than a bolt on? That's very unusual for a Fender Toronado.

If it IS a bolt on neck, then I'd be tempted to say it's a Korean GT HH Toronado that's been re-finished/veneered and had a pickup set swap. I got mine out and compared the serial number - my stock GT HH Toronado is very similar to yours: 0504****. The rest of the serial number logo is exactly the same. Did you buy it from new?

Whats the headstock like? Can't quite see it in the photo.. Does it just say Fender? But of course maybe your headstock has been re-finished to match.. What about the neck position dots? Are they abalone? The hardware (from what I can see of it) looks identical to mine as well, although those aren't the original control knobs for a GT. Note also that the GT didn't have a scratchplate either.

These GT Toronados were from Fender's short lived Big Block range - try googling that.. If you bought the guitar from new looking like that, and if it does have a set neck, then I'm stumped. Perhaps it was a deluxe model or something.. Certainly nothing I've ever seen before.

In the absence of any other info, I'll stick my neck out and say it's a refinished, re-worked GT HH Toronado.

Let us know - come back and talk to us some more about it. Where and when, how much, new/2nd hand, set/bolt neck etc.. I'm very interested in what you have there.

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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:42 pm
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bought as new stock at Beyer's Music in Bochum, Germany for 499,- euros (down from 800 because it had been hangeing around for so long...)


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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 12:52 pm
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the control knobs are a little set in (hard to see on the picture) and the wiring seems to me good work, seen a lot worse on some guitars:

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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 5:15 pm
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it looks pretty. but i wouldnt have bought it until i was for sure it was real.

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Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 7:43 pm
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Well there goes my theory out the window.. a stock, set neck Fender Toronado with veneered finish.. The first I've ever seen.

But the more I look at it - with your extra photos too - the more I'm convinced that it's a posh relative or member of the Big Block range GT Toronado series. Korean build, the same rear control panel routing and components, Seymour Duncans p/ups, the same Jazz Master style Headstock (slightly different from a 'big' Strat head), the same string trees, the similar serial number and legend style, the same Fender logo (although yours appears to be picked out in gold), the absence of a pickguard, the plain unlined truss rod access hole and the same abalone dot position markers, all point to that particular series.

I'm going to have to do some serious web surfing to try and find a reference to your guitar.

There's a guy here (might actually be called Toronado) who has a nice collection of US and Mexican Toros. I'm sure he'd be interested to see what you've got.

I'm a bit surpised you got it so cheap. You look at it and think, "why wouldn't it sell?" although the GT range wasn't a big seller. Perhaps it's because it's Korean. I got mine at half price too (probably because it's metallic green with silly black L shaped racing stripes). Mine plays really well and sounds thick and fat. So I'm sure yours is even better, with it's mahogany body and what I assume is a veneered maple cap and P90s all adding brightness. Add the set neck and it's very Gibson LP isn't it?Congratulations anyway, and thanks for showing.

Nice one!

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Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:17 am
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chambers23 wrote:
it looks pretty. but i wouldnt have bought it until i was for sure it was real.


it sounds great (and looks great). I don't go for brands when buying an interesting guitar.

@adey: I'm quite positive the veneer is mahagony, too. definately not maple. I sent a request to fender customer service giving the number and asking for more information. hope they tell me more about it :)

as for sound: Yeah it's just the thing, nice n bright but still can get real heavy if you want it to. my only problem at the moment is I play in a Punk/Metal band where it's essential to have gain cranked up all the way; that's just not what the guitar was made for, and looking at the inside looks like the shielding is quite good already. goes noisy in between songs and costs a lot of nerve, but i just can't afford another guitar at the moment...

/e: got a first reply from fender customer service, "the sn# is not coming up in the system". sent some photos.


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Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 5:04 am
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Have you tried inputting the serial number into the internet guitar dater project?

Have found one reference to your Toronado, but it states that there are no pictures available on the net of this particular model..

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Posted: Wed May 19, 2010 10:12 am
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okay, here it is: fender customer service says it's a fake.

that's okay with me, because i don't give much for brands anyway, but i keep wondering...

Who would fake a toronado like this???? i mean, it's an excellent guitar and very well made. if I would fake something, I'd make a cheap copy (which looks the same from the outside!) and sell it for the higher price of the original. But to make a sort of custom-like guitar which in some places is more tricky than the original (set neck, veneer...) as a fake that doesn't even look like the original just doesn't make sense to me...


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Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:56 am
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I'm amazed at that revelation. No wonder I haven't been able to find an image of that model.

Completely mystifying - why make a fake of a Korean build guitar? Especially - as you say - when it took a skilled Luthier to put it together (set neck/veneer). And he spent some cash on it too..

I wonder if the Seymour Duncan pickups are genuine? They look right.
And I'd put money on the original donor guitar being a genuine Fender GT Toronado. This guitar clearly has a strange history - maybe it's a prototype? Or perhaps a demonstration piece made at the factory to show what they could do and impress Fender execs?

Actually, I'm not at all convinced that it is a fake. Maybe Fender records for their Korean factory are not as complete as they could be? Perhaps somebody who answered your Email couldn't be bothered to do the investigative leg work? (no offence meant there, Fender) And you did buy it from new at a named European store - you don't buy fakes at genuine dealerships do you? And as I say, my casual research did turn up at least a reference to a set neck Toronado - here's a link:

http://www.offsetguitars.com/forums/vie ... 8&p=155589
(Look at the last paragraph of the first response post by someone called Stereordinary)

Fascinating.

Still a great guitar though - I'd have bought it, even now with it's suspicious heritage revealed.

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Last edited by adey on Thu May 20, 2010 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject:
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 8:39 am
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adey wrote:
Actually, I'm not at all convinced that it is a fake. Maybe Fender records for their Korean factory are not as complete as they could be? Perhaps somebody who answered your Email couldn't be bothered to do the investigative leg work? (no offence meant there, Fender) And you did buy it from new at a named European store - you don't buy fakes at genuine dealerships do you?
Fascinating.


yeah thought of that, too. But can't do much about that, can i :)


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Post subject:
Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 5:18 pm
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pip-le-pip wrote:
adey wrote:
Actually, I'm not at all convinced that it is a fake. Maybe Fender records for their Korean factory are not as complete as they could be? Perhaps somebody who answered your Email couldn't be bothered to do the investigative leg work? (no offence meant there, Fender) And you did buy it from new at a named European store - you don't buy fakes at genuine dealerships do you?
Fascinating.


yeah thought of that, too. But can't do much about that, can i :)


Nope. Guess that's true..

Looks like your Toronado is going to remain a mystery. Shame, would have been nice to run it down to a definitive answer.

Any other Fender buffs here more knowledgeable than me, got anything to add to this thread?

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Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 8:31 pm
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The first thing that I thought of when I saw that Toro was the Korean FMT Tele:

Image

The following website has a Toro just like yours, OP, but with S-D hums instead of P-90s: http://www.carlosjuan.eu/index.php?id=125

Perhaps it's a prototype? I don't think it could be a fake, but then again ...

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Post subject:
Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 4:34 am
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Looks like you cracked it - a Korean GT FMT (or QMT) Toronado. And not a fake at all..

Thanks Phoenix, and now Pip can just get on with the busines of enjoying his guitar.

Good thread guys!

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Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 5:07 pm
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Fenders last word: It may have cool features, but it's still a fake. :D

but thanks for that piece of research, I actually just feel lucky to be able to enjoy this guitar (when just about probably few other people can :P ).

Thanks again.

pip


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