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Post subject: Feedback & Squeal in Jaguar! Lace Sensor pickups maybe?
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:07 am
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Anyone tried lace sensor pickups in a Jaguar? :?:

I have an American Vintage Reissue '62 Jaguar that squeals with feedback.
I also have a set of lace sensors in blue-silver-red that aren't in anything at the moment.

Specifically ... I was thinking about putting the blue lace in the neck position and the red lace in the bridge position. But any experience you may have with lace pickups in a Jaguar would be appreciated.

As for the music and sound I do and like; I'm currently doing blues music. I did old 60's surf in the past. So I lean toward a Fender clean to a slightly overdriven sound 90% of the time. Or ... put another way - a clean sound on the verge of break-up - that can sound overdriven when you really dig in.

Mostly ... I'm wanting the Jaguar to be free of feedback and squeal. I would like to play it, instead of it just sitting in the case most of the time. I've already been through ALL the wiring and soldier connects several times. The original pickups have been re-wound once and wax potted twice. No lose grounds or bad connections have ever been found. That's why I'm considering the pickup swap.

Any other ideas about fixing the feedback problem? (other than pointing the amp away from you and standing 10 - 20 feet back from it?)


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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:29 am
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I did exactly that over a year ago. I'll admit, it kind of took away that signature surf twang but I don't play that kind of music on a regular basis. I put a Red Lace Sensor in the bridge position. No squeal what so ever. It is a lot beefier. I have some tips if you have never replaced a pick-up on your own. Are you going to make the switch yourself or take it to a pro?

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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:10 am
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mojoredfoot wrote:
I did exactly that over a year ago. I'll admit, it kind of took away that signature surf twang but I don't play that kind of music on a regular basis. I put a Red Lace Sensor in the bridge position. No squeal what so ever. It is a lot beefier. I have some tips if you have never replaced a pick-up on your own. Are you going to make the switch yourself or take it to a pro?


Thank you mojoredfoot :D

Some questions. I hope you don't mind:
Did yours squeal before making the change?
Do you still have the standard neck pickup installed?
And, if so, do you use it, or do you only use the red lace in the bridge position?

Thanks for the offer of the tips too. 8)
While I have been doing my own work on guitars and amps for several years now, I always listen to others. My idea is - a person never knows everything and can always learn something new, if a person will listen closely. :wink:

The only work I have had done for me was the re-winding of the pickups along with the 2nd wax potting after the re-wind. The re-wound pickups did sound more full, but the squeal problem was still there.

I bought the Jaguar new - special order. And it has had this problem since day one. I have had that Jag apart so many times looking for the problem, that I think I could just about do it in my sleep. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Anyway - If it gets rid of that *@!#* squeal, but I have to lose the twang in the process - so be it. At least then it would be a usable instrument.


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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 5:29 am
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rholloman wrote:
mojoredfoot wrote:
I did exactly that over a year ago. I'll admit, it kind of took away that signature surf twang but I don't play that kind of music on a regular basis. I put a Red Lace Sensor in the bridge position. No squeal what so ever. It is a lot beefier. I have some tips if you have never replaced a pick-up on your own. Are you going to make the switch yourself or take it to a pro?


Thank you mojoredfoot :D

Some questions. I hope you don't mind:
Did yours squeal before making the change?
Do you still have the standard neck pickup installed?
And, if so, do you use it, or do you only use the red lace in the bridge position?

Thanks for the offer of the tips too. 8)
While I have been doing my own work on guitars and amps for several years now, I always listen to others. My idea is - a person never knows everything and can always learn something new, if a person will listen closely. :wink:

The only work I have had done for me was the re-winding of the pickups along with the 2nd wax potting after the re-wind. The re-wound pickups did sound more full, but the squeal problem was still there.

I bought the Jaguar new - special order. And it has had this problem since day one. I have had that Jag apart so many times looking for the problem, that I think I could just about do it in my sleep. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Anyway - If it gets rid of that *@!#* squeal, but I have to lose the twang in the process - so be it. At least then it would be a usable instrument.


Glad I can help. Keep in mind, I have MIJ Jaguar. I don't think the pups are different (SDs) Yes, the squealing was pretty bad. Even on lower gain settings. I could never turn up the volume past like 5. I did not change the neck pup. and I don't think I will because it never squeals (at leat not in a bad way :wink: I still use it, sometimes by itself or both pups.

The only problem I had is I did not have proper screws to hold the pup in place after putting in the Red LS. You will still need some peice of foam like what is on the bottom of the original Jag pup.

There is one wire on the Red LS that is not on the Jag SD (As I recall the Jag had 2). I can't remember where I soldered it. I think 1 goes to the pup selector, one to the ground and the other to the vol pot.

It was definitely a HUGE improvement and I highly recommend it. Good luck. You should be able to get a Red LS on ebay for a good deal. I got mine for like $30. Post pix when it's done. :D

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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:01 am
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Thanks again mojoredfoot :D

If I can find a way, I'll post a picture. I think one of my children still has a digital camera. Maybe I can borrow one from them. They would probably know how to post pictures too.

Right now, it looks like any other three tone sunburst Jaguar out there.
It hasn't been played much because of the feedback problems, and still looks new, like when I got it.

That piece of rubber under the pickup is mounted to the metal in the bottom of the pickup routing on mine. I have an old 1/4" thick foam ribber mouse pad that I have cut some pieces from in the past - it may come in handy again in this project. :lol:

Those pickup screws could be a problem. I'll have to see what I need to do there. (maybe a smaller, but longer, wood screw)

Thanks again. You have been very helpful and made me think of things that will be needed. (It's been a while & I had forgotten the details :) )


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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:51 am
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Piece of rubber mouse pad would be perfect. The original mounting screws might by fine. That's what I used. Might have to screw in a little further than before but mine is solid and does not really wiggle. I'll try to take some up close pix of the work and post 'em here. I'm due to change the strings on that guitar anyway.

On a similar topic, do you have the original bridge/saddles or have you switch it out? I have a TOM style in sometimes but it raised the action too high for my liking but I had it set as low as could go. I was thinking about getting mustang saddles because I have a bridge cover and I like the look of it.

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Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:43 pm
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mojoredfoot wrote:
Piece of rubber mouse pad would be perfect. The original mounting screws might by fine. That's what I used. Might have to screw in a little further than before but mine is solid and does not really wiggle. I'll try to take some up close pix of the work and post 'em here. I'm due to change the strings on that guitar anyway.

On a similar topic, do you have the original bridge/saddles or have you switch it out? I have a TOM style in sometimes but it raised the action too high for my liking but I had it set as low as could go. I was thinking about getting mustang saddles because I have a bridge cover and I like the look of it.


I still have the original bridge and saddles. But after getting everything adjusted, I coated the threads of all adjustment screws with clear fingernail polish to stop any unwanted movement. I don't use the chrome cover. Sometimes it would touch the strings and cause noise problems, so I just leave it off. It also got in the way when doing a palm mute. But if you like it - then I would say use it. :D (leo wanted us to use it I've heard :lol: )

At one time I tried the black graphtech saddles on it, and now have the originals back on. After the "honeymoon period" you have with anything new you buy, It seemed to me that all I got with the graphtech saddles was a bit of "dulling" down of the tone similar to turning the tone knob down a little. If it improved sustain - it wasn't enough for me to hear.

I shimmed the neck on mine to get the action right with the bridge adjusted high. That is - I put shims under the end of the neck that is closest to the neck pickup. The shims are only about 1/4" wide by about 1/64", or less, thick (like heavy card stock) and long enough to go across the neck pocket. It may take 2 or 3 of these - depending on your guitar. In a pinch, you can make some from a business card.

I was some concerned that the shimming might cause a lose of sustain or degrade the sound in some way - it didn't, at least with mine.

And, of course, the pickup heights will need to be adjusted higher too before evaluating the sound.

About using the original mounting screws with the lace sensor - did you have to drill out the screw holes in the lace sensor?

Also - I've been thinking about what you said about the sound of the red lace pickup. Since I have the blue & silver & red available from my plus deluxe Strat - maybe the blue in the bridge, with the silver in the neck might be a better choice for the Jaguar?

Any thoughts on that?


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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:40 am
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rholloman wrote:



I still have the original bridge and saddles. But after getting everything adjusted, I coated the threads of all adjustment screws with clear fingernail polish to stop any unwanted movement. I don't use the chrome cover. Sometimes it would touch the strings and cause noise problems, so I just leave it off. It also got in the way when doing a palm mute. But if you like it - then I would say use it. :D (leo wanted us to use it I've heard :lol: )

At one time I tried the black graphtech saddles on it, and now have the originals back on. After the "honeymoon period" you have with anything new you buy, It seemed to me that all I got with the graphtech saddles was a bit of "dulling" down of the tone similar to turning the tone knob down a little. If it improved sustain - it wasn't enough for me to hear.

I shimmed the neck on mine to get the action right with the bridge adjusted high. That is - I put shims under the end of the neck that is closest to the neck pickup. The shims are only about 1/4" wide by about 1/64", or less, thick (like heavy card stock) and long enough to go across the neck pocket. It may take 2 or 3 of these - depending on your guitar. In a pinch, you can make some from a business card.

I was some concerned that the shimming might cause a lose of sustain or degrade the sound in some way - it didn't, at least with mine.

And, of course, the pickup heights will need to be adjusted higher too before evaluating the sound.

About using the original mounting screws with the lace sensor - did you have to drill out the screw holes in the lace sensor?

Also - I've been thinking about what you said about the sound of the red lace pickup. Since I have the blue & silver & red available from my plus deluxe Strat - maybe the blue in the bridge, with the silver in the neck might be a better choice for the Jaguar?

Any thoughts on that?


I will try the nail polish trick. I only have the wiggling saddle problem on the high E and B strings.

The LS pickups are meant for strats w/ pick guards so there would normally be that rubber tube between the bottom hole and the PG. That is why I added the rubber strip on the bottom of the pup. So no extra hole is needed. It fit right in.

I actually have a 1989 Strat plus delux too :D it's my favorite guitar. It has Gold (n) /Silver (m) /Blue (b) set. Obviously not the factory set. I got it used on 4/24/99 and haven't changed it. I loved the clear as a bell tones and no squealing. The Red LS is the hottest and I play primarily metal so it was no question for me to get the red one. The blue by comparison is a bit more bluesy (no pun intended). You should be able to claim more of that twang I was talking about with the Blue LS.

I'd love to get a custom Jaguar with the dual LS like in the Strat Ultra.

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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:49 am
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I think my Strat Plus Deluxe is either a late '89 or early '90. :D (accordind to what I can find out from the serial number) Mine is in natural ash with a maple neck. It's a SUPER guitar - as I'm sure you know since you have one.

It's been played so much that I've worn the frets down some. :lol: (even though they are the bigger frets)

Mine had that flat, wide, Wilkinson nut when I got it, along with the blue, silver & red lace sensors. I changed the nut to the newer ball bearing type "roller" nut. And, I now have a set of DiMarzio single coil size humbuckers in it. A "Chopper" in the neck position, a "Fast Track 1" in the middle position and a "Fast Track 2" in the bridge position, with 1 meg volume and tone pots and a .022 tone cap. With those pickups it will do just about anything asked of it from the bass heavy chugging to the high screaming sounds and anything in-between. Harmonics are great too.

Like I said - THAT is ONE GREAT GUITAR!

So why am I worried about getting my Jaguar right? Well, I like things to work as they should - and - sometimes a guy just has to go surfin' - right? :wink: :wink: (hehe)

Well I'm going to have to run this through my head a bit more. But I will probably try the Blue/neck & Red/bridge combo first because of some of the more modern surf having more drive to it. And then if that's too much - I will still have the silver/neck & blue/bridge combination to fall back to.

The thing that stands out is - you had the squealing problem too, and the red lace sensor fixed it!

And mojoredfoot - thanks for the exchange here. :D
It has made me think again - and brought out some very good ideas.

(now if I can get these old hands, and old eyes, to do the job :? )


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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:09 am
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rholloman wrote:
I think my Strat Plus Deluxe is either a late '89 or early '90. :D (accordind to what I can find out from the serial number) Mine is in natural ash with a maple neck. It's a SUPER guitar - as I'm sure you know since you have one.

It's been played so much that I've worn the frets down some. :lol: (even though they are the bigger frets)

Mine had that flat, wide, Wilkinson nut when I got it, along with the blue, silver & red lace sensors. I changed the nut to the newer ball bearing type "roller" nut. And, I now have a set of DiMarzio single coil size humbuckers in it. A "Chopper" in the neck position, a "Fast Track 1" in the middle position and a "Fast Track 2" in the bridge position, with 1 meg volume and tone pots and a .022 tone cap. With those pickups it will do just about anything asked of it from the bass heavy chugging to the high screaming sounds and anything in-between. Harmonics are great too.

Like I said - THAT is ONE GREAT GUITAR!

So why am I worried about getting my Jaguar right? Well, I like things to work as they should - and - sometimes a guy just has to go surfin' - right? :wink: :wink: (hehe)

Well I'm going to have to run this through my head a bit more. But I will probably try the Blue/neck & Red/bridge combo first because of some of the more modern surf having more drive to it. And then if that's too much - I will still have the silver/neck & blue/bridge combination to fall back to.

The thing that stands out is - you had the squealing problem too, and the red lace sensor fixed it!

And mojoredfoot - thanks for the exchange here. :D
It has made me think again - and brought out some very good ideas.

(now if I can get these old hands, and old eyes, to do the job :? )


That's awesome. Isn't the neck on your strat plus the best? That's one of the reasons mine is so loved :D It's the only maple neck in my collection. Black burst 2 piece ash. You can see it in a different topic I posted a while ago. I think it's called "Fans of Strat plus/ultra."
I got it used and somebody already changed it to the LSR roller nut.

You will not be disappointed when you're done. It will sound like a whole new guitar. And what is more fun than "new guitar?" I can only think of one thing being that I'm married :wink:

If all else fails w/ this experiment and you decide to get rid of the LS set, i'll gladly take em off your hands :lol:

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Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:04 am
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mojoredfoot wrote:
That's awesome. Isn't the neck on your strat plus the best? That's one of the reasons mine is so loved :D It's the only maple neck in my collection. Black burst 2 piece ash. You can see it in a different topic I posted a while ago. I think it's called "Fans of Strat plus/ultra."
I got it used and somebody already changed it to the LSR roller nut.

You will not be disappointed when you're done. It will sound like a whole new guitar. And what is more fun than "new guitar?" I can only think of one thing being that I'm married :wink:

If all else fails w/ this experiment and you decide to get rid of the LS set, i'll gladly take em off your hands :lol:


Yep ... The neck plays and feels great. VERY slick to play.
It has played like that since I first got it.

I bet that black burst is a thing of beauty - especially if it's done over an ash with a good grain pattern.
edited for: I looked up the thread "Fans of Strat plus/ultra" you mentioned. THAT is a beauty!!

I had a guy come by, just out of the blue, and wanted to buy mine. He just kept asking me to put a price on it. I don't want to sell it - so I told him it would take $2500 to get it. He just looked at me kind of strange for a minute - then said he would be back. I thought "Ooohh NO! I have priced it too low and now I'm gonna lose my baby". Thank God he hasn't shown back up. It's been a couple of weeks now and if he does show back up now - I guess I'll just have to say I changed my mind. Morale of the story - NEVER put a price - any price - on something you want to keep. It's too hard on the nerves.

I took the neck off a few years ago to give it a really good close inspection as to why it played so well. Whoever did the work on the neck was a real craftsman and took pride in his/her work. Straight and true as an arrow and smooth polished frets, no protruding fret ends and rounded edges of the fretboard.

While I couldn't duplicate the fullness of the neck in my other guitars necks - I did go over the ones that needed it to give them the smooth, polished frets and ends like the plus deluxe has. And also the "rounder" edges of the neck. Now they all play pretty good. :D

Strange thing though - The Jaguar and Jazzmaster didn't need any work to the necks. They were already in great shape from the factory. I just wish the necks had bigger frets - but then they are supposed to be a reissue of a "vintage" instrument - and they do play really well and slick. My only gripe has been the feedback with the Jaguar.

Oh ... about the married thing being more fun. After you've been married long enough to have a couple of kids and raise them to the point where they are old enough to leave home - it goes back to the guitar being more fun. :lol: SO KEEP YOUR GUITARS. :lol: They don't hassle you like a lot of older wives do. And the guitars will still moan and cry and scream when you touch them the right way. :wink: :wink:

And , you're right about having a "new" guitar after changing the pickups.
That happened when I took the DiMarzios out of storage and installed them in the Strat Plus Deluxe.

I'm hoping it will be another positive experience with changing the Jaguar pickups. Now it's just ... when I get around-to-it. :lol: :lol:


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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:16 am
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I know what you mean. I'll bet your strat has a serial number E 9#####. Something about those necks was magical. I've have had a friend begging to buy it from me since the day I got it because I reserved the guitar in the store and he wanted to buy it. I just beat him to the punch and he still won't let it go. I had someone ask to trade his 1997 strat plus for it too. It was a big HELL NO since I did not like the feel of his and it was a pretty standard sunburst. I like sunburst but they are not hard to come by. So I will sell a kidney before I sell that strat. I would only trade it for something rediculous like a Ken Lawrence explorer or PRS dragon.

Yeah I wish the frets were bigger in the Jaguar but it's already a short scale neck. Wouldn't leave much room.

I got 15+ years until my kids move on. My youngest will be 3 soon. My wife is cool about the guitar addiction (to an extent). That white strat was an anniversary present :D Plus I already told her that my midlife crisis will not be a sports car of younger woman, but a really nice guitar. She is very happy about that.

I understand what you mean though, when neither of you wants it or it doesn't work, at least your guitars still do :wink:
I'll post pix of the Jaguar tonight on this forum.

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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:54 am
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Yes, ... your right, the serial number is "E 9xxxx"
And, I'll not ever put a price on it again. :wink:

mojoredfoot wrote:
I got 15+ years until my kids move on. My youngest will be 3 soon.


Aaaah ... I remember when mine were 3 and 2 years old. Very fond memories. My oldest will be 18 next year. Enjoy them while you can, before they reach their teen years. Then they will tear your heart out and then laugh about it.

I'm and old guy that started a family late in life, with a young wife. I was too preoccupied with other things before that. :lol:

My wife is really a very nice, loving and sweet person - even though what I posted earlier might seem to be the opposite. (we men have a "rough" image we must project :lol: )

And she is also understanding about my "music". However, now I have to always keep in mind there is a family that must be looked to before considering anything for myself. Sometimes an expensive gift must be turned down, or returned, because the wife or kids need something. But I suppose ever married man knows that. :D Family comes first. (but similar to what you said ... I would sell a kidney too before selling that strat)

I look forward to seeing your Jag. :D [thumbs-up]


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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:37 pm
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rholloman,
As promised here are the pix. There's 4 of em so be patient. I'll explain the wiring since the LS has 3 instead of 2. On we go:

Full guitar:
Image

Close up of mounting screw:
Image

Rubber/foam strip about 1/8" thick
Image

Wiring. Orange wire to pup selector, white to vol pot, and green to ground.
Image

I hope this helps.

I'm putting the TOM bridge back on and a fresh set of EB regular slinkies and then gonna play it for a while
:)

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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:29 pm
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Thank you mojoredfoot for posting the pictures. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words, and your pictures show a lot of detail. More about the pictures later. :D

I ran into two problem this afternoon.

One is, with the neck set at the angle that it is right now, the bridge pickup is so high that the bottom of the short lace sensor will be above the pickguard. But, I can re-adjust everything and probably get around that. It would just mean the break angle across the, then lower, bridge would go back to being very shallow. If there was a mounting ring available for a single coil similar to the humbucker mounting rings used on Les Pauls - that would solve the problem without re-adjusting the neck angle and bridge height - but I have not seen one yet.

The other is, my pickup adjustment screws must be bigger than yours in your Japanese Jaguar. The threads would just barely start into the lace sensor, then stop. I'll need smaller diameter screws to go through the metal lugs of the lace sensors, and then plug the screw holes in the body and re-drill the screw holes. Or .... drill out the threads in the lace sensors for the bigger screws.

Right now I'm leaning towards hunting for new, smaller screws, since that would not do any non-reversible damage to anything. As drilling out the lace sensors would ruin them for any other installation.

Decisions, decisions ...... :?
I'll get there - it will just take a while longer. :D

Back about the pictures;
I was surprised about some things. One is the pickguard - it looks red in the picture. Mine is brown tortoise shell, like the material Fender picks are made of. Did that pick guard come with your guitar, or did you get that yourself and install it? If so - would you mind passing on where you got a custom color pickguard for a Jaguar?

The other is the neck pickup with black on top - mine is kinda yellowed-off-white looking all over. But with the chrome metal "claws", of course. I've never seen a Jaguar pickup with a black top before. (or is that just a shadow, or something, in the picture?)

Also noticed that your body doesn't have the three holes for the mute, between the bridge posts. But I think someone told me the Japanese models came without the mute.

Your soldier joints look real good.

Another difference is in the wiring of the lace pickups. Yours has three wires, an orange, a white and a green wire. Mine, on the other hand, only have two wires - an orange and a white wire. I'm thinking the orange wire would still be the hot wire to the pickup selector, (orange stays orange on both? - I hope) with the white wire soldiered to ground - like the wiring of the standard pickup that came in the Jaguar. Also the orange went to the pickup selector in the Strat, with the white soldiered to ground.

Also - mine says "Fender-Lace Sensor" on the cover - not just "Lace Sensor". I wonder if we are taking about the same pickups here - just re-branded for Fender, or did Fender have their own two wire version? I guess that question will most likely have to go unanswered though.

Anyway - This has gotten most interesting now.
With your pictures and all.

If I can find a way to post some pictures, it would make for a good comparison of the two guitars, I think. The big question is "IF", or really "how". I did find out that the kids camera doesn't work anymore, so that's out.

And - I want to thank you for going to all the trouble of taking and posting your pictures. That was not only very helpful, but very nice of you too. Thanks :D

It may be a few days while I'm searching for some screws that will work.
But now I'm really wanting to hear what it sounds like with those blue and red sensors in my Jaguar, so I hope I find them quick. :lol:


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