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Post subject: 1960 Red Jazzmaster color ID
Posted: Sun May 20, 2018 1:46 pm
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I have a 1960 Jazzmaster which I have always assumed to be Fiesta Red. Under the neck, however, is written in pencil ‘SEM RED’. Could this be Seminole Red or perhaps referring to Semi-transparent red? Just wondering. I have always felt that it doesn’t look quite like the modern interpretations of Fiesta Red and it is not dark enough to be Dakotah Red. Any thoughts would be appreciated.


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Post subject: Re: 1960 Red Jazzmaster color ID
Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 12:10 am
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Why have you assumed the Fiesta Red? It's more common, of course, but if the original owner had a Buick and some leverage...

So, my guess would be on the Seminole Red... even without pics (wink, wink).

I've never seen/heard/read about 'sem' used as a stamp for 'semi-transparent' @ vintage Fenders.
Was that term even invented in 1960..? :wink:


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Post subject: Re: 1960 Red Jazzmaster color ID
Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 7:47 pm
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Hi Rockstar. I will gladly post pictures when I can figure out how to do it. I’m feeling really old trying get to figure his out. If my 16 year old weren’t tied up with homework, I’d make her figure it out for me. (She’ll be finished with her homework eventually.)
As for why I assumed Fiesta Red.. it is my understanding (based in the 1960 color chart) that there were only two reds offered: Fiesta and Dakotah. I thought my guitar color was too deep in color to be Fiesta Red, so I ordered some Dakotah Red nitrocellulose Lanier to do some repair work (under the pickguard). The color of the Dakotah was much deeper than my guitar’s color. I was too cheap to order another can of paint to try the Fiesta Red, so I just left the repaired areas in Dakotah Red.

P.S. Any advice on how to upload photos will be taken seriously.

Cheers,
John C.


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Post subject: Re: 1960 Red Jazzmaster color ID
Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 11:16 pm
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Hi.
The 'rock star' is only the forum's way to tell how many posts a member has written - that's why you, as a new member/poster have the 'hobbyist'.

I'm under the understanding that in the late fifties/early sixties the colors available were sort of a jungle. There were Fender published color charts, but every now and then a vintage & original instrument with a strange, not-on-the-menu color pops up. So I would not call a Seminole 1960 impossible.

On the pic posting, it's a bit tricky here - so I've made instructions I copy/paste quite often:
Quote:
First you need to upload your pics to the internet. Use a pic hosting site (imgur, imgbb or such - avoid photobucket) or some common web framework like e.g. facebook, googlephotos - whatever you're familiar with.
The important thing is that the web site provides you with a pic address - that's the one starting with 'http' and ending in '.jpg'.

Copy the pic address, and use the IMG-command (visible when you write a message) on the forum.

Preview your post so everything is OK.


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Post subject: Re: 1960 Red Jazzmaster color ID
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 7:26 pm
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Hi J(rockstar)Mattis,
Let me know if this link works. (should direct you to a microsoft one folder) If it does you should find some interesting pictures. If it doesn't, I'll try something different. Thanks.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ah8ZAR9ybW_rkHRX2lh9JQkiRNFm

Cheers,
John C.


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Post subject: Re: 1960 Red Jazzmaster color ID
Posted: Thu May 24, 2018 11:27 pm
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OK, I see one pic. And it makes me want more - what's that pickup (/wiring) system, and the five holes(?) in the pickguard? What's the background of the guitar?

A note, though: many members don't even open outside links, so the 'pics on the forum' way (instructions above) usually bring more & better answers.

In diagnosing a color, all computer screens lie. Especially on a vintage color, which has faded & changed for a very long time. And on that pic, the low resolution and the background colormix make things even more difficult.

Anyways, a Seminole Red from 1960 is way rare, so I doubt there is any solid info available. At least I'm sure my own contribution is merely guessing.
But, the color (same as 'Cardinal Red') was on the GM car color chart, so there is a possibility of it dripping to a few Fender's instruments - not many, since it was a Gibson color... :wink:
Again a sidenote here: later days Seminole Red #77 (same color number for Frost Red) looks different, from the car colors and from this guitar.


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Post subject: Re: 1960 Red Jazzmaster color ID
Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 4:11 am
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Sorry about that. I had put up a bunch of pictures. Not sure why it only showed one. Here’s another stab.

https://1drv.ms/a/s!Ah8ZAR9ybW_rkQdDY1mVaXyywuUv

As for the holes, the Tele pickup in the lead location, etc,... you shouldn’t give nice guitars and hand tools to boys in high school. There had been five additional switches (3 phasing and 2 parallel/series) which I installed in 1980 and removed in 1983. Last year I decided it was time to put it right again.

Let me know if the above link works. Thanks for the follow up, JMattis.

Sincerely,
John C.


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Post subject: Re: 1960 Red Jazzmaster color ID
Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 10:53 am
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OK, now I see the whole show - and that's one beautiful guitar. For anyone interested, it's safe to click the link.

On the color, I'd believe the Seminole Red. But I think it's possibly a (very old, too - having a vintage status of it's own...) refin. The "SEM RED" text could be on an old White (Blonde?) color layer - and the same seems to fit the body edges where the guitar has relic'd.

Quote:
you shouldn’t give nice guitars and hand tools to boys in high school
Been there, done that - both as a high school boy myself (doing the naughties) and as a father of one (doing the old-man-nagging-again)... 8)

BTW, I think I found a way to post pics on the forum, let's see if it works. It's "Show original", which opens in a new window, copy the address, delete the "?psid=1" so the address ends in .JPG, paste on the forum post & use the IMG-command on the forum. (Not the first time I both giggle and curse at the forum policy on pics...)
Image


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Post subject: Re: 1960 Red Jazzmaster color ID
Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 11:15 am
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Glad the link worked. Thanks again for the follow up. I have always assumed that the white layer was a primer, but you may be right. I suspect, however, that if it is a repaint - it was done before it left the factory. In one of the pictures showing the disemboweled guitar, you can see that hey used the same method of taping off the guitar to write a number on the guitar (under the neck pickup). Also, I bought it in 1978 and most of the heavy wear was already there. (Big belt buckles had become quite popular).


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Post subject: Re: 1960 Red Jazzmaster color ID
Posted: Sat May 26, 2018 12:55 am
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:53 am
Posts: 4240
Unless you find the original owner(s), the supposed refin will stay a mystery.
My guess is, it was done after it left the Fender factory. That guess is only based on that typical Ff-refins aren't taped like that.
Anyways, I don't think that's a major issue with the value of the instrument - the other mods already drop it slightly below 'Mint' from a collector/investor viewpoint. :wink:

And a BTW, my pic-on-the-forum idea didn't work - they (OneDrive) seem to have a random "Show original" pic address for every visit - today's address didn't match yesterday's, so the pic I used has vanished from the forum.


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