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Post subject: Tuning Stability Questions - New Tele Am Std
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:22 am
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Hi folks,

Back in May my wife got me a new Tele American Standard. I LOVE this guitar. It plays great (after a setup) and sounds great. I have hardly played my Strat and LP since getting it.

That said, I've found the tuning stability to be a bit of an issue. Here's what I've done to this guitar:
- Pro setup, including lowering nut/nut slots (was way too high)
- Replacement of standard tuners with new Fender locking tuners (follow by check/adjust intonation)
- Adjust pickup heights (level out volume and avoid potential tuning issues)
- Lubed up nut slots with graphite from a pencil

So, I still find tuning is fairly unstable, i.e. I need to re-tune every song or 2. It's not any particular string, it's any/all of them, though the low E might be a touch worse than most.

I haven't bought a new electric guitar in a couple decades (only used electrics since the mid-90s). My current theory is that what I am experience is a lot of wood movement/instability due to a few facts:

- New guitar / newer wood needs time to stabilize
- North Carolina summer weather, moving guitar from house to car to church, temp/RH changes at each location, etc.

So, do you guys think I'm on the right track, or do you have other ideas as to why my tuning may not be very stable? I am particularly interested in whether or not you think it could be related to new/young wood stability and the need to let it age a bit to stabilize.

thanks!

-Andrew


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Post subject: Re: Tuning Stability Questions - New Tele Am Std
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:51 am
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An AmStd Tele is built like a tank, you should almost be able to drop it from a plane and it stays in tune...

My troubleshooting checklist on that kinda situation would start like:
Are the strings attached to tuners right?
New strings, were they bent sufficiently when put in the guitar?
Truss rod adjustment - what's the relief (= does the neck get any support from the truss rod)?

And of course, was the "pro" who did the setup a pro level guitar tech :wink:


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Post subject: Re: Tuning Stability Questions - New Tele Am Std
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:00 pm
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First off the nut needs checking out - do the strings glide through the slots easily enough? Is there any point where the strings stick?
How are you stringing up now that you've fitted locking tuners?
What gauge strings are you using?
Are you properly stretching the strings out?


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Post subject: Re: Tuning Stability Questions - New Tele Am Std
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:08 pm
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Check out both the relief (bow) and the string height (as per setup procedure) with feeler guages and record the measurement. Do this every couple of days for a while to see if the neck is changing. It'll tell you a lot about the guitar's stability.

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Post subject: Re: Tuning Stability Questions - New Tele Am Std
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 6:28 pm
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Are the strings going flat or sharp? Do the strings consistently go flat or sharp or is there no pattern? Were there any tuning problems before the guitar was worked on?

I’ve experienced some tuning issues with Gibsons coming out of a cold case and going under hot stage lights but never Fenders. This is easy enough to check, just take the guitar out of the case and let it acclimate to the room.

Maple is generally pretty stable, but it couldn’t hurt to check. Hit the high E and let it ring. Bend the B and G strings as hard and far as you can and listen for any pitch change in the E string.

As long as the string is stable on the tuning machine, most tuning problems occur at the nut or the bridge. The last possibility is technic. How hard are you hitting the strings?


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Post subject: Re: Tuning Stability Questions - New Tele Am Std
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:34 am
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adaura,

You write you do a pro set up .

To me a pro set up is by a qualified luthier or somebody with enough knowledge and experience with the use of the rights tools.

What is your experience ?

The only thing I see when I bought new guitar , is the neck bow move often the fisrt 3 years , but guitar stay in tune for week .

You may have a intonation issue too .

When do a set up you can see what is wrong , where to work with some mesurement . What do you see ?


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Post subject: Re: Tuning Stability Questions - New Tele Am Std
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:04 pm
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Wow, so many good questions back at me. Here's my stab at them:

- Pro setup was done by a reputable local professional guitar tech.

- I will double check the smoothness of the strings movement in the neck

- with the locking tuners I use the recommended method from Fender - set them to 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, and 5 o'clock positions (treble to base), pull through, lock and tune up

- Relief was good, but i will double check it to see if it has changed

- Strings were stretched extensively, almost obsessively :)

- I'm using 9s. It came with 9s, and I've kept 9s (though part of me wants to try 10s at some point with the Tele)

- Love the idea to take measurements every day to look for movement. Now I just got a good machinists rule (1/64" increments), so I will start with that.

- Generally strings are going a touch flat, though they go both ways

- I'm not gentle with strings, but I don't bash them either

- Yes, tuning was not very stable before the setup either

- After the initial setup, which included intonation, I have made further adjustments (which is interesting - why did the intonation go out again that soon after the setup? This is part of why I think it's wood movement)


I also think my pickups may still be set a little too high. I'm going to re-check everything:

- nut slot fit
- relief
- string height
- intonation
- pickup height

And see if that doesn't help. I'll even try a new set of strings (well stretched and installed correctly) if all else fails, even though this set is pretty new. Beyond that, I might take it back to the pro.

Thanks for the ideas!

-Andrew


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Post subject: Re: Tuning Stability Questions - New Tele Am Std
Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2015 2:22 pm
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adauria wrote:
.......Relief was good, but i will double check it to see if it has changed........
Love the idea to take measurements every day to look for movement. Now I just got a good machinists rule (1/64" increments), so I will start with that........
After the initial setup, which included intonation, I have made further adjustments (which is interesting - why did the intonation go out again that soon after the setup? This is part of why I think it's wood movement).....

A set of feeler gages is not expensive and far more accurate than a rule.
I have often had guitars need to be tweaked within days of a setup. It will often take some time for things to stabilize and necessitate additional tweaks, especially if your setup is for very low action. Don't change strings until some research/measurements have been taken....maybe a couple of weeks???

Be patient, do the measurements, and most likely it will stabilize in time. If not, then a pro luthier is in order.

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Post subject: Re: Tuning Stability Questions - New Tele Am Std
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:21 am
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adauria wrote:
Generally strings are going a touch flat, though they go both ways

Hmm. I'd re- and double check the nut slots. Also the top of the nut; the strings shouldn't sink in the slots too deep.
Oh, an "idiot test": are the neck plate screws properly tightened (snug but no hulk scale force)? (And while you're at it, check all other screws&nuts.)

adauria wrote:
I'll even try a new set of strings (well stretched and installed correctly) if all else fails, even though this set is pretty new.

It's possible that the "pretty new" set still stretches. Or the neck still moves. Or, as I guessed above, the nut isn't exactly right.
But: a new set of strings never hurts. And a recheck by a pro is always good - you'd think a reputable local professional guitar tech would warranty his/her/its job.


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Post subject: Re: Tuning Stability Questions - New Tele Am Std
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:18 am
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“Generally strings are going a touch flat, though they go both ways”

It sounds like your strings are binding in the nut…


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Post subject: Re: Tuning Stability Questions - New Tele Am Std
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 6:55 pm
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Don't know if this will help much. According to Fender the procedure on the locking tuners is to go sharp then tune down to pitch.


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Post subject: Re: Tuning Stability Questions - New Tele Am Std
Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:25 pm
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adauria wrote:
Hi folks, Back in May my wife got me a new Tele American Standard... My current theory is that what I am experience is a lot of wood movement/instability due to a few facts:

- New guitar / newer wood needs time to stabilize
- North Carolina summer weather, moving guitar from house to car to church, temp/RH changes at each location, etc.

thanks!

-Andrew


I think you've nailed it. :wink:

Spent lots of time in the South, from Texas, through Arkansas/Louisiana/Tennessee/Georgia... all the way to Florida and the Carolinas. This includes lots of Summertime.

The Temp/Humidity swings are pretty much unlike any other area of the Country.

A 40-year Master Luthier I know - Charlie Hoffman (Hoffman Handmade Guitars ) once told me:

"Sometimes Wood doesn't like being turned into a Guitar... It is an organic material. It is pretty well understood and generally it's qualities fall into a known and predictable range. But, sometimes, you come across a piece whose individual characteristics fall outside the 'norm'. It may be more/less resonant, or display greater/lesser movement in response to Temp or Humidity... or both.

That's not to say it's always unusable for instrument building, not at all. Sometimes these just take longer to acclimate and interact with the other woods in the instrument. And... sometimes, these produce some of the finest sounding guitars..."


IMHO, you may not be able to accurately judge this guitar for a couple more seasons.

It's never a bad idea to check tuning, so while perhaps slightly inconvienient, stick with it a while. You may be glad you did.

cheers!

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