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Post subject: Looking for tuner options.
Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 9:00 am
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I really like most everything about my '72 Thinline except for the tuners. What would you guys suggest for some drop in replacements?

Jay


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Post subject: Re: Looking for tuner options.
Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 3:12 am
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There are no drop in alternatives.


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Post subject: Re: Looking for tuner options.
Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:09 pm
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Don't read into that buzz kill's message. There are always alternatives available for your axe brother!

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Post subject: Re: Looking for tuner options.
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:58 am
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Kluson now does make a "drop-in" replacement for the F tuners - they are kind of odd looking in that they are a modern tuner body on an individual plate that fits the F-tuner screw pattern. They have not been out for very long.

Here is a link to WD's site for them:

Non-locking:
http://www.wdmusic.com/kluson_revloutio ... 805cl.html

Locking:
http://www.wdmusic.com/kluson_revloutio ... 805cl.html


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Post subject: Re: Looking for tuner options.
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:20 am
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That's right, I forgot to mention WD.

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Post subject: Re: Looking for tuner options.
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:10 pm
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Thanks for the information.

Jay


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Post subject: Re: Looking for tuner options.
Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:51 pm
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129Jayman wrote:
I really like most everything about my '72 Thinline except for the tuners. What would you guys suggest for some drop in replacements?

Jay

Hi Jay,

This is not a "drop in" solution, but it is something for you to consider.
A few years ago, I bought a Nashville Deluxe neck that was on eBay which had no tuners, for a guitar build that I was planning to do.

Image

I was unaware at the time that Nashville Deluxe neck was set up for vintage Kluson style tuners, which is not the look that I wanted for the guitar.

Image

My plan was to use Fender/Schaller American Standard tuners.

Image

The 11/32” tuner peghead holes in the neck headstock for the Kluson style tuners had to be enlarged to 13/32” to accommodate the American Standard Tuners.
I first used a 3/8” drill bit. I taped off the drill bit as a depth gauge, equal to the length of the tuning peghead outer shaft.
As you can see in the picture below, the tuners have two pins on the bottom of the tuner for which two small holes must be drilled, which are critical to the proper alignment of the tuners.

Image

There is no need to drill all the way through the neck (the tape depth gauge is not shown on the picture below, but it was used when actually drilling the tuning holes).
The small screw holes for the Kluson style tuners were very carefully filled with plastic wood, as it will mar the finish of the neck if precautions are not taken.
I actually used a pet syringe to inject the plastic wood into the small holes, but you probably could probably tape off the area around the small holes with electrical tape and carefully pack the holes with plastic wood with a finger.

Image

You can determine the placement of the pin holes by placing the tuner into the enlarged hole and by pressing the on the tuner, slightly denting the wood with the pins.
Otherwise, you could place lipstick or some similar substance on the pins and mark the neck.
Then drill the holes with small drill bits, starting with the smallest drill bit you have, refitting the tuner, examining the alignment, and adjusting the holes as necessary, until the pins fit into the holes, with the tuner flush with the neck and properly aligned, so that the tuner can be tightened into place with the locking nut on the front of the head stock.

Image

As you can, see there is a very slight variation in the alignment of the tuners on the back of the headstock, due to the difficulty of properly drilling the small alignment pin holes without a template.
But this slight variation is really not generally noticeable if you were not looking for it, and I was able to have the tuners that I wanted on the guitar, which function perfectly.

Image


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Post subject: Re: Looking for tuner options.
Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 2:24 am
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Thanks for the information. That will come in handy when it time to change up my tuners.

Jay


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Post subject: Re: Looking for tuner options.
Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:05 am
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As usual I disagree with MJ, a hand drill is not a very good way to enlarge peghead holes.

I'll stand on the shoulders of forum giants to avoid this getting to a heated quarrel:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=59399&p=716177
Quote:
Here's a plea: if you plan to enlarge your pegholes to take the bigger tuner shaft please to it the right way. Do not think about simply drilling the hole out with a 10 mm drill bit in an electric drill. I have seen one of the most experienced luthiers (and I do mean luthier, not guitar shop tech) ruin a peghead by screwing up that job.


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Post subject: Re: Looking for tuner options.
Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:18 am
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John C wrote:
Kluson now does make a "drop-in" replacement for the F tuners - they are kind of odd looking in that they are a modern tuner body on an individual plate that fits the F-tuner screw pattern. They have not been out for very long.

Here is a link to WD's site for them:

Non-locking:
http://www.wdmusic.com/kluson_revloutio ... 805cl.html

Locking:
http://www.wdmusic.com/kluson_revloutio ... 805cl.html


Thanks for the info - it's about time one of the parts companies did something better that those nasty tuners from the 70s.


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Post subject: Re: Looking for tuner options.
Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:33 am
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MickJagger wrote:
As you can, see there is a very slight variation in the alignment of the tuners on the back of the headstock, due to the difficulty of properly drilling the small alignment pin holes without a template.
But this slight variation is really not generally noticeable if you were not looking for it, and I was able to have the tuners that I wanted on the guitar, which function perfectly.


There ain't no euphemism speak that can cover up a botch job.
In plain speak those tuners are not straight.

The funniest comment is about it not being noticeable if you don't look for it.

You should have used a hand reamer to enlarge the holes, and properly marked out where the locating pins positions needed to be drilled with a hand drill.


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Post subject: Re: Looking for tuner options.
Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:31 pm
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jmattis wrote:
As usual I disagree with MJ, a hand drill is not a very good way to enlarge peghead holes.

I'll stand on the shoulders of forum giants to avoid this getting to a heated quarrel:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=59399&p=716177
Quote:
Here's a plea: if you plan to enlarge your pegholes to take the bigger tuner shaft please to it the right way. Do not think about simply drilling the hole out with a 10 mm drill bit in an electric drill. I have seen one of the most experienced luthiers (and I do mean luthier, not guitar shop tech) ruin a peghead by screwing up that job.

You may disagree with the manner I employed to enlarge the peghead holes, and if you wish to purchase expensive tools to perform this simple task, please be my guest.
The fact of the matter is, I did not "simply drill out the hole out with a 10 mm drill bit" as this "forum giant" suggests is incorrect, in the Fender Forum thread cited, which proclaims that disaster will result from such an approach.

The 11/32” tuner peghead holes had to be enlarged to 13/32”.
I first used a 3/8” drill bit which is equal to 12/32".
Increasing the diameter of the hole size initially by 1/32", effectively increases the radius of the hole by only 1/64".

This small initial change to both the radius and the diameter of the hole, allows for the hole to be enlarged in a precise manner, which has no detrimental effect on tuner fit, or on the effective positioning of the "axis" of the tuner in the headstock.
The small change to the diameter and radius of the peghead hole is then repeated with the 13/32 drill bit, which produces the same precise result.
This, of course, assumes that you are able to look at your drill bit from all angles and effectively drill a straight hole into the guide hole of the headstock, using a slow drill speed, with a variable speed drill.
Once the pin holes are drilled and the tuners are able to sit flush on the back of the headstock, the front side nuts are tightened and the tuners are correctly positioned in the peghead holes.
Once again, this is not rocket science.

If you wish to believe one of the "forum giants;" that extremely "experienced luthiers" cannot effectively and precisely enlarge the peghead holes in the manner that I prescribe, and that you need to purchase expensive luthier tools to perform this simple task, you are free to do so.

stratmangler wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
As you can, see there is a very slight variation in the alignment of the tuners on the back of the headstock, due to the difficulty of properly drilling the small alignment pin holes without a template.
But this slight variation is really not generally noticeable if you were not looking for it, and I was able to have the tuners that I wanted on the guitar, which function perfectly.

There ain't no euphemism speak that can cover up a botch job.
In plain speak those tuners are not straight.
The funniest comment is about it not being noticeable if you don't look for it.

You should have used a hand reamer to enlarge the holes, and properly marked out where the locating pins positions needed to be drilled with a hand drill.

If the alignment of the tuners on the back of the head stock bothers you, mangler, then you should not attempt this modification.
If I merely showed you this guitar without you're knowing of the modifications to the tuners that were made, it is highly doubtful that you would ever notice the slight non-alignment of the tuners on the back of the headstock, unless you examined every inch of the guitar in an extremely close manner.
If you consider this to be a "botched job," you are entitled to your opinion, and I disagree.

stratmangler wrote:
You should have used a hand reamer to enlarge the holes, and properly marked out where the locating pins positions needed to be drilled with a hand drill.

There ain't no euphemism to cover-up such know-nothing advice and moronic opinions, from such an beacon of ignorance, as you mangler.
The alignment of the peghead holes is perfect.
To get an exact alignment of the tuners on the back or the headstock, you need a template for the alignment of the pins, on the bottom of the tuners, which Fender unfortunately does not provide with their American Standard, Schaller tuners.

I'd like to see you do this modification without a template and mark out the exact location of the pin holes, which is an impossible task for achieving the exact template locations for the pins.
Thank you for your know-nothing advice and moronic opinions, mangler.
You can now return to the power plant....


Last edited by MickJagger on Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Looking for tuner options.
Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:17 pm
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If you want to ruin your own guitars, you are absolutely free to do so.
Just, please don't give any more "advice" on the forum. This pic says it all:
Image
Can you spot anything wrong?


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Post subject: Re: Looking for tuner options.
Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:41 pm
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jmattis wrote:
If you want to ruin your own guitars, you are absolutely free to do so.
Just, please don't give any more "advice" on the forum. This pic says it all:

Image

Can you spot anything wrong?

Are you suggesting that the drill bit is not aligned with the peg hole?
The picture was NOT taken during actual drilling, you dimwit.
The picture was taken after the fact, holding a camera in one hand and the drill in the other hand.

Who do you think you are, to direct anyone as to what advice should given on this forum.
As for "ruining" my guitar, the guitar plays as well or better than any Tele you pull off the rack at a guitar store and looks great as well.
My advice to you is that you should seek counseling for your propensity to make such irresponsible and ludicrous remarks.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=53915

Image

I will be doing another guitar build in the coming weeks, which will provide you further opportunity to embarrass yourself.


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Post subject: Re: Looking for tuner options.
Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:43 pm
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MickJagger wrote:
If the alignment of the tuners on the back of the head stock bothers you, mangler, then you should not attempt this modification.
If I merely showed you this guitar without you're knowing of the modifications to the tuners that were made, it is highly doubtful that you would ever notice the slight non-alignment of the tuners on the back of the headstock, unless you examined every inch of the guitar in an extremely close manner.
If you consider this to be a "botched job," you are entitled to your opinion, and I disagree.

To get an exact alignment of the tuners on the back or the headstock, you need a template for the alignment of the pins, on the bottom of the tuners, which Fender unfortunately does not provide with their American Standard, Schaller tuners.

I'd like to see you do this modification without a template and mark out the exact location of the pin holes, which is an impossible task for achieving the exact template locations for the pins.
Thank you for your know-nothing advice and moronic opinions, mangler.
You can now return to the power plant....


All it would have taken using your method would have been a straight edge along the bottom of the tuners.
No template required, just the intelligence to work it out.

If you don't like being told the truth then don't bring poor handiwork to the show and tell.

PS You've only managed to get the tuner for the D string straight. One out of six is close enough, eh? :lol:


Last edited by stratmangler on Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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