It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 1:18 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
Post subject: Re: Telecaster frets
Posted: Thu May 07, 2015 11:12 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:35 pm
Posts: 807
Location: Just East of Event Horizon
arth1 wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
If you get a buzz at the top frets again, there is no need to take the guitar to a guitar tech.
Simply turn the truss rod in the head-stock with an Allen key, 1/4 turn or less, counter-clockwise.
This adds a small amount of relief to the neck.
Repeat if necessary.


This is completely invalid information. The relief does not affect the top frets at all, only the bendable part of the neck. Anything above approximately the 17th fret is going to be pretty much unaffected.....

You are out of your mind dude.
Seasonal changes and changes in in humidity quite often produce buzzing at the top of the neck when THE NECK MOVES.
This is easily corrected by a truss rod adjustment, which may be required two or more times a year to eliminate a slight fret buzz which has developed, or when a loss of action has developed, when the bridge is properly adjusted, and the neck moves due to temperature and humidity changes
This guy just had a setup.
It is assumed that the bridge is set at a reasonable height for proper action.
You generally adjust action with the bridge.
A slight buzz at the top of the neck when the bridge is in proper adjustment, is adjusted with the truss rod.

arth1 wrote:
To increase the action at the top frets, either:
- Adjust the action at the bridge
- Adjust the microtilt if there is a microtilt adjustment screw
- Put a shim in the neck pocket if there isn't
... but leave the truss rod alone, unless you need to adjust the dip in the middle.

All of this advice is complete nonsense for the problem described.
- For a slight buzz at the top of the neck, adjust the truss rod, not the bridge.
- A microtilt adjustment, if available, only tilts the neck backward and cannot eliminate fret buzzing.
- Shimming the neck would be an extreme last resort when all other approaches to setting up the neck fail, and the geometry of the neck has to be altered.
- The truss rod adjusts the entire neck and is most useful when there is a slight buzz at the top of the neck.
arth1 wrote:
And if there's a pronounced "ski jump", take it to a luthier. Crown dressing will help, but if the warp is too extreme, the fretboard might have to be sculpted.

If there is a pronounced "ski jump", you should take the guitar skiing and have some fun!!
Aimless banter about "ski jumps," crown dressings, neck warping, and sculpting the fret board is ludicrous regarding a new, $400.00 guitar.
By the way, the person working on your guitar is a "luthier" only if the person is engaged in the craft of making string instruments, or "lutherie."
A person that adjusts neck set-ups, or replaces pickups, is merely a "guitar tech."


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Telecaster frets
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 1:40 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:20 pm
Posts: 496
MickJagger wrote:
By the way, the person working on your guitar is a "luthier" only if the person is engaged in the craft of making string instruments, or "lutherie."
A person that adjusts neck set-ups, or replaces pickups, is merely a "guitar tech."

Thank you! That has been a pet peeve of mine for awhile. Using Luthier and guitar tech interchangeably.

I doubt if many Luthiers work as guitar techs as a side job. I've taken my custom Tele back twice for mods - the first one was minor but don't want anyone else working on it plus he can update the COA instead of having a guitar tech change it up and then have it not match the COA. He doesn't make it a priority but he'll eventually get it done and back to me. If I was to take one of my other guitars to him and ask him to change the pickups or do a setup he would look at me like I was crazy! He doesn't have time for that.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Telecaster frets
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 5:06 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:54 am
Posts: 95
MickJagger wrote:
arth1 wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
If you get a buzz at the top frets again, there is no need to take the guitar to a guitar tech.
Simply turn the truss rod in the head-stock with an Allen key, 1/4 turn or less, counter-clockwise.
This adds a small amount of relief to the neck.
Repeat if necessary.


This is completely invalid information. The relief does not affect the top frets at all, only the bendable part of the neck. Anything above approximately the 17th fret is going to be pretty much unaffected.....

You are out of your mind dude.
Seasonal changes and changes in in humidity quite often produce buzzing at the top of the neck when THE NECK MOVES.
This is easily corrected by a truss rod adjustment, which may be required two or more times a year to eliminate a slight fret buzz which has developed, or when a loss of action has developed, when the bridge is properly adjusted, and the neck moves due to temperature and humidity changes
This guy just had a setup.
It is assumed that the bridge is set at a reasonable height for proper action.
You generally adjust action with the bridge.
A slight buzz at the top of the neck when the bridge is in proper adjustment, is adjusted with the truss rod.

arth1 wrote:
To increase the action at the top frets, either:
- Adjust the action at the bridge
- Adjust the microtilt if there is a microtilt adjustment screw
- Put a shim in the neck pocket if there isn't
... but leave the truss rod alone, unless you need to adjust the dip in the middle.

All of this advice is complete nonsense for the problem described.
- For a slight buzz at the top of the neck, adjust the truss rod, not the bridge.
- A microtilt adjustment, if available, only tilts the neck backward and cannot eliminate fret buzzing.
- Shimming the neck would be an extreme last resort when all other approaches to setting up the neck fail, and the geometry of the neck has to be altered.
- The truss rod adjusts the entire neck and is most useful when there is a slight buzz at the top of the neck.
arth1 wrote:
And if there's a pronounced "ski jump", take it to a luthier. Crown dressing will help, but if the warp is too extreme, the fretboard might have to be sculpted.

If there is a pronounced "ski jump", you should take the guitar skiing and have some fun!!
Aimless banter about "ski jumps," crown dressings, neck warping, and sculpting the fret board is ludicrous regarding a new, $400.00 guitar.
By the way, the person working on your guitar is a "luthier" only if the person is engaged in the craft of making string instruments, or "lutherie."
A person that adjusts neck set-ups, or replaces pickups, is merely a "guitar tech."


You guys seem to know what you're talking about. Here's one for you. After I have had the neck adjusted for the second time, I noticed a slight buzzing on the "A" string at the second fret. All strings at every fret are fine, except this one string at this one fret. I spoke with the luthier and he's going to have another look at it. It seemed to work fine after I brought it back the second time - at least I think so. Perhaps it was there and I didn't notice it. I'm a rhythm player, but I thought I would learn lead parts to so some of the old Venture songs that I can remember the chord patterns to. It was then that I discovered the buzzing I described. Back it goes. I hope it can be sorted without loosing the low action on the remainder of the fret board.

Cheers


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Telecaster frets
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 5:07 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:53 am
Posts: 4241
I won't take part in the general MJ/arth1 battle (except to note that it probably starts with the two understanding "top frets" differently).

But the term luthier today does cover both instrument makers and repairers.
If you accept absolutely no developments in language, and want to keep the word to its original meaning, it would only cover lute makers...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luthier


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Telecaster frets
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 1:29 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:35 pm
Posts: 807
Location: Just East of Event Horizon
jmattis wrote:
I won't take part in the general MJ/arth1 battle (except to note that it probably starts with the two understanding "top frets" differently).

But the term luthier today does cover both instrument makers and repairers.
If you accept absolutely no developments in language, and want to keep the word to its original meaning, it would only cover lute makers...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luthier

Merriam-Webster Dictionary
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/luthier
Definition of LUTHIER: one who makes stringed musical instruments (as violins or guitars)
Origin of LUTHIER
French, from luth lute (from Middle French lut)
First Known Use: 1879
Historically, stringed instruments were "repaired" by the makers of stringed instruments: Luthiers.
That is generally not the case today, and "luthier" should not be used to describe a "guitar tech."
Current use of the term "luthier" for describing a "guitar tech" is not correct, and the reference to that usage in Wikipedia is also not correct.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Telecaster frets
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 2:27 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:35 pm
Posts: 807
Location: Just East of Event Horizon
F-Stop wrote:
You guys seem to know what you're talking about.

Only one of us knows what they are talking about, and it's not arth1.
F-Stop wrote:
Here's one for you. After I have had the neck adjusted for the second time, I noticed a slight buzzing on the "A" string at the second fret. All strings at every fret are fine, except this one string at this one fret. I spoke with the luthier and he's going to have another look at it. It seemed to work fine after I brought it back the second time - at least I think so. Perhaps it was there and I didn't notice it. I'm a rhythm player, but I thought I would learn lead parts to so some of the old Venture songs that I can remember the chord patterns to. It was then that I discovered the buzzing I described. Back it goes. I hope it can be sorted without loosing the low action on the remainder of the fret board.

If you don't want to alter the action of the neck, you can try raising the "A" string bridge saddle.
Since this is a wound string, this may resolve the problem by raising the saddle without altering the action of the guitar.
However, this may result in having to raise the string too high to eliminate the buzz.
If that is the case, at that point you will have to first determine whether you can live with the buzz.
Often times, a slight buzz at one fret is indistinguishable when the guitar is amplified.

Otherwise, if a bridge saddle adjustment raises the string too high, drop the saddle back down, and you will have to adjust the truss rod 1/4 turn counter-clockwise, which will slightly raise the action.
If the problem is bad enough, and a combination of truss rod and saddle adjustment does not eliminate the problem, you may have to decide whether or not to have the frets leveled and crowned.
In the alternative, assuming that you have enough adjustment in your bridge saddles to lower them, you could consider shimming the neck as a last resort, as shown in the picture below.
For your problem a single strip of masking tape above the top screws is all that should be attempted, as a single strip of tape will alter the geometry of the neck to a substantial degree.
However, you must have enough adjustment available in your bridge saddles, to be able to lower the bridge saddles to accommodate the change in geometry of the neck.
At whatever height the bridge saddles are set, the saddle height should follow the crown or radius of the neck.
Image[/quote]


Last edited by MickJagger on Fri May 08, 2015 2:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Telecaster frets
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 2:38 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:54 am
Posts: 95
MickJagger wrote:
F-Stop wrote:
You guys seem to know what you're talking about.

Only one of us knows what they are talking about, and it's not arth1.
F-Stop wrote:
Here's one for you. After I have had the neck adjusted for the second time, I noticed a slight buzzing on the "A" string at the second fret. All strings at every fret are fine, except this one string at this one fret. I spoke with the luthier and he's going to have another look at it. It seemed to work fine after I brought it back the second time - at least I think so. Perhaps it was there and I didn't notice it. I'm a rhythm player, but I thought I would learn lead parts to so some of the old Venture songs that I can remember the chord patterns to. It was then that I discovered the buzzing I described. Back it goes. I hope it can be sorted without loosing the low action on the remainder of the fret board.

If you don't want to alter the action of the neck, you can try raising the "A" string bridge saddle.
Since this is a wound string, this may resolve the problem without altering the action of the guitar.
However, this may result in having to raise the string too high to eliminate the buzz.
If that is the case, at that point you will have to first determine whether you can live with the buzz.
Often times, a slight buzz at one fret is indistinguishable when the guitar is amplified.

Otherwise, if a bridge saddle adjustment raises the string too high, drop the saddle back down, and you will have to adjust the truss rod 1/4 turn counter-clockwise, which will slightly raise the action.
If the problem is bad enough, and a combination of truss rod and saddle adjustment does not eliminate the problem, you may have to decide whether or not to have the frets leveled and crowned.
In the alternative, assuming that you have enough adjustment in your bridge saddles to lower them, you could consider shimming the neck as a last resort, as shown in the picture below.
For your problem a single strip of masking tape above the top screws is all that should be attempted, as a single strip of tape will alter the geometry of the neck to a substantial degree.
However, you must have enough adjustment available in your bridge saddles, to be able to lower the bridge saddles to accommodate the change in geometry of the neck.
Image
[/quote]

That is very kind of you to go to such detail. Very much appreciated. I took the guitar back to the Luthier, and he pretty well outlined what you said. To correct it will effect the nice low action on the neck that I like, and besides, I don't want to spend more on it at this stage. His advice - either live with the buzz or just return the guitar. Whether I return it or not, I'm not sure, but I just got off the phone from ordering the Fender Classic Series Baja Telecaster. I'll speak with the wife tonight as she really likes the Tele, so I might just keep it for her. :D

I guess I'm suffering from Tele mania

Thanks again for the advice.

Cheers


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Telecaster frets
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 3:27 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:35 pm
Posts: 807
Location: Just East of Event Horizon
F-Stop wrote:
That is very kind of you to go to such detail. Very much appreciated. I took the guitar back to the Luthier, and he pretty well outlined what you said. To correct it will effect the nice low action on the neck that I like, and besides, I don't want to spend more on it at this stage. His advice - either live with the buzz or just return the guitar. Whether I return it or not, I'm not sure, but I just got off the phone from ordering the Fender Classic Series Baja Telecaster. I'll speak with the wife tonight as she really likes the Tele, so I might just keep it for her. :D

I guess I'm suffering from Tele mania

Thanks again for the advice.

Cheers

If you are suffering from Tele mania, then you should learn to work on your own guitars.
It is very satisfying and not very hard after you do some reading.
I had little experience working on guitars when I decided in 2011 that I wanted to build a Tele.
I had no idea how the guitar would turn out, or what kind of string action might be possible.
I read a lot and I learned how to set the scale length to the bridge, and how to set the intonation after a required shimming of the neck, which I figured out on my own.
The guitar came out better than I could ever have imagined and plays great.
Take a look at the link below which contains a lot of technical information on putting together a Telecaster.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=53915


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Telecaster frets
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 6:15 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:20 pm
Posts: 496
MickJagger wrote:
jmattis wrote:
I won't take part in the general MJ/arth1 battle (except to note that it probably starts with the two understanding "top frets" differently).

But the term luthier today does cover both instrument makers and repairers.
If you accept absolutely no developments in language, and want to keep the word to its original meaning, it would only cover lute makers...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luthier

Merriam-Webster Dictionary
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/luthier
Definition of LUTHIER: one who makes stringed musical instruments (as violins or guitars)
Origin of LUTHIER
French, from luth lute (from Middle French lut)
First Known Use: 1879
Historically, stringed instruments were "repaired" by the makers of stringed instruments: Luthiers.
That is generally not the case today, and "luthier" should not be used to describe a "guitar tech."
Current use of the term "luthier" for describing a "guitar tech" is not correct, and the reference to that usage in Wikipedia is also not correct.


Then I guess that just about every member of this forum and most of the kids working at Guitar Center are luthiers. I always thought there would have to be some kind of schooling or maybe some kind of apprenticeship program involved. Not a couple of DIY videos on U Tube and some trial and error at home.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Telecaster frets
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 5:01 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:53 am
Posts: 4241
fenderfan wrote:
Then I guess that just about every member of this forum and most of the kids working at Guitar Center are luthiers. I always thought there would have to be some kind of schooling or maybe some kind of apprenticeship program involved. Not a couple of DIY videos on U Tube and some trial and error at home.


Well, I'd be a bit doubtful of calling the 'trial-and-error-embellished-with-couple-of-Youtube-videos' guys "guitar techs" either. But to follow that line of thinking, would one cigar box guitar qualify the "luthier" title?
And what would you call Dan Erlewine?

But enough for this now, I gotta do a little work on my horseless carriage.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Telecaster frets
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 9:10 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:35 pm
Posts: 807
Location: Just East of Event Horizon
jmattis wrote:
fenderfan wrote:
Then I guess that just about every member of this forum and most of the kids working at Guitar Center are luthiers. I always thought there would have to be some kind of schooling or maybe some kind of apprenticeship program involved. Not a couple of DIY videos on U Tube and some trial and error at home.

Well, I'd be a bit doubtful of calling the 'trial-and-error-embellished-with-couple-of-Youtube-videos' guys "guitar techs" either. But to follow that line of thinking, would one cigar box guitar qualify the "luthier" title?.

If the maker of a cigar box guitar took planks of wood, and carved, finished, and fretted the neck, and constructed the cigar box from scratch, and built and wound the pickups, technically the person should be considered to be a "luthier". If the person took a prefabricated cigar box and attached a prefabricated neck, and off the shelf pickups, the person should not be considered to be a "luthier" by definition.
Nor would I qualify myself as being a "luthier" after having put together a Tele partscaster with a Mighty Might body with a Fender neck and pickups.
jmattis wrote:
And what would you call Dan Erlewine?

Dan Erlewine's web site states that he "has made his living as a guitar repairman and builder since 1963."
In all likelihood, he should be considered to be a luthier.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Telecaster frets
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 10:26 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:53 am
Posts: 4241
Thou shalt not beliefe all scriptures written on the information highway.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Telecaster frets
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 1:09 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:20 pm
Posts: 496
jmattis wrote:
fenderfan wrote:
Then I guess that just about every member of this forum and most of the kids working at Guitar Center are luthiers. I always thought there would have to be some kind of schooling or maybe some kind of apprenticeship program involved. Not a couple of DIY videos on U Tube and some trial and error at home.


Well, I'd be a bit doubtful of calling the 'trial-and-error-embellished-with-couple-of-Youtube-videos' guys "guitar techs" either. But to follow that line of thinking, would one cigar box guitar qualify the "luthier" title?
And what would you call Dan Erlewine?

But enough for this now, I gotta do a little work on my horseless carriage.


You can find plenty of videos on UTube and other sites showing you how to set the action, pickup height, neck adjustment etc. You can use that information to set up guitars but that doesn't make you a luthier. A salesman at Guitar Center can offer to tweak a guitar to make it more playable in order to seal the deal, but that doesn't make him a luthier either. He's just a salesman - maybe a kid who knows a few things about setting up a guitar or maybe an experienced musician who has been setting up his own gear and making partscasters for decades. I know that SOME Guitar Centers have a trained luthier on staff or subcontracted but in most cases, the words "luthier" and "Guitar Center" shouldn't be in the same sentence. A salesman who knows how to set up a guitar is no more a luthier than a burger-flipper at McDonalds is a chef. In this case the store set up the guitar for him, did it wrong and it had to go back for another try so that leads me to think that even for Guitar Center the guys skills barely met the definition of guitar tech and to keep referring to him as a "luthier" does a real disservice to those who have earned the title. Maybe "String Changer and Polisher" would be a more appropriate title and is really all you should expect from Guitar Center.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Telecaster frets
Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 6:31 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:50 pm
Posts: 4602
Location: ˚ɷ˚
MickJagger wrote:
By the way, the person working on your guitar is a "luthier" only if the person is engaged in the craft of making string instruments, or "lutherie."
A person that adjusts neck set-ups, or replaces pickups, is merely a "guitar tech."

What guitar tech is capable of straightening the top of a fretboard?
Sorry, if that is the problem, you do indeed need a luthier. I did not say that it was the problem, but that if it is the problem, see a luthier. Not a tech.

And sorry, no, a luthier is also someone who repairs guitars. Just like a watchmaker isn't just someone who makes watches, but also those with the skills to repair them.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Telecaster frets
Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 7:44 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:35 pm
Posts: 807
Location: Just East of Event Horizon
arth1 wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
By the way, the person working on your guitar is a "luthier" only if the person is engaged in the craft of making string instruments, or "lutherie."
A person that adjusts neck set-ups, or replaces pickups, is merely a "guitar tech."

What guitar tech is capable of straightening the top of a fretboard?
Sorry, if that is the problem, you do indeed need a luthier. I did not say that it was the problem, but that if it is the problem, see a luthier. Not a tech.

And sorry, no, a luthier is also someone who repairs guitars. Just like a watchmaker isn't just someone who makes watches, but also those with the skills to repair them.

"Historically," luthiers made and repaired guitars and other stringed instruments.
Today, all luthiers can and do repair guitars.
However, not all persons who repair guitars today, are luthiers.

Secondly, a competent guitar tech should be able to level and crown frets, particularly when there is only one fret that is a problem.

Or you can simply go to this web page and watch the first video and order a fret leveling kit:
BUZZ-OFF® Fret Leveling Kit in Action
http://www.jsbguitars.com/guitar-making ... veling-kit

Stewart McDonald also has numerous tools and files to consider using.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: