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Post subject: N3 single coil usage?
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:54 am
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I'm toying with the idea of adding a single coil neck pup sound to my N3 equipped 3-way switch non-S1 Tele.

N3 = stacked humbucker, 3 wires: black (live), green (ground), red (live)

Would it be as easy as adding a switch on the black pickup wire, disconnecting it? Or would that disconnect the string side pickup instead of the body side one, and thus be muffled?

I have no need for doing this on the bridge pup; it would only be used for sometimes adding clarity when using the neck only, so I'm not interested in an S1 setup, five-way switch, phase changers or circuitry that alters the standard sound.


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Post subject: Re: N3 single coil usage?
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:05 am
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As far as I understand, the "Fender N3 Noiseless Tele® pickups" are single coils and as such, they're non-splittable (although they apparently utilize a "stack" system for noise control).
I read the wires red/hot/"send", black/cold/"return" and green = separate extra ground.

So, a switch in the green wire would just weaken the pup grounding, a switch in the black wire would silence the pup totally.
But, I've never taken apart an N3 so just guessing, based on the wiring diagram

Edit: Scratch the paragraphs above, try hollering the forum wiring wizard Martian for additional info on this earlier topic:
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=71235
Learning something every day :wink: and why the duck doesn't Fender call their noiselesses humbuckers :oops:


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Post subject: Re: N3 single coil usage?
Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:51 am
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N3s are stacked coil humbuckers housed into a single coil format.

In order to achieve coil tapping and splitting the pickups must have a 4-conductor cable allowing such operations.


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Post subject: Re: N3 single coil usage?
Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:16 am
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So I got this much right:
Quote:
a switch in the green wire would just weaken the pup grounding, a switch in the black wire would silence the pup totally
:wink:

BTW, if one would add the two extra wires, (and: I understand Martian advises against that on the link I posted) would it in this N3 case be coil splitting or coil tapping?


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Post subject: Re: N3 single coil usage?
Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:57 am
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chromeface wrote:
N3s are stacked coil humbuckers housed into a single coil format.

In order to achieve coil tapping and splitting the pickups must have a 4-conductor cable allowing such operations.


I'd think 3 would be enough for splitting. (Tapping is a different thing)

1 CCCCCCC 2 CCCCCCC 3

Connecting 1 and 3 together and using it against 2 would give parallel humbucker sound.
Connecting 1 and 2 together and using it against 3 would give single coil sound.
Connecting 2 and 3 together and using it against 1 would give single coil sound.
In all three cases #2 can be ground.

Disconnecting 2 and using 1 against 3 would give serial humbucker sound. That would require moving ground to either 1 or 3.

(I could be wrong, but I think the latter is what the S1 switch on the American Deluxe does?)


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Post subject: Re: N3 single coil usage?
Posted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:18 pm
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Anyway, you'd have to do a " coil tapping" procedure (= cut the wire between the stacked coils) to "coil split" (= get only one of the coils to produce sound) - and, according to Martian in that link above, that ain't a walk in the park (well, maybe Central Park in NY at night).

And a dumb question: is it now confirmed beyond any reasonable doubt that the N3 works as a humbucker; meaning it has two coils producing sound, not one sound coil/one dummy coil?


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Post subject: Re: N3 single coil usage?
Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:23 pm
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jmattis wrote:
Anyway, you'd have to do a " coil tapping" procedure (= cut the wire between the stacked coils) to "coil split" (= get only one of the coils to produce sound)

That doesn't follow at all.
- If both ends of one of the coils are grounded, it will produce no sound.
- If the outer end of one of the coils is disconnected, it will produce no sound (although it would still be an antenna).

And yes, the N3 is a stacked humbucker just like the vintage noiseless. The question is what the internal wiring is like. If black and green are the endpoints and red the midpoint (top of one coil, bottom of the other), it would work in "default wiring mode" with black and green soldered together as a standard parallel humbucker, and there should be possibilities of changing to single coil sound.
However, if the two endpoints are fused together inside the humbucker like on a DiMarzio, and both black and green being ground, there's not much one can do (and not much point in having three wires instead of two). Or, if the two coils are wound the same way, and the bottom of the bottom one is connected to the bottom of the top one, and the top of the bottom one connected to the top of the top one, like on the vintage noiseless, there's also not much to do (but then the question of why three wires would be even more puzzling).


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Post subject: Re: N3 single coil usage?
Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:19 pm
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jmattis wrote:
a " coil tapping" procedure (= cut the wire between the stacked coils)

I meant "cut and rewire", like:
Image
arth1 wrote:
The question is what the internal wiring is like.

This is why I mentioned that "cut & rewire" procedure; quoting Martian: "the black wire is one of the two coils' leads whereas the green wire grounds the metal frame aspects of the pickup, having nothing to do with either coil."

And (sorry for digging on this; I'm old but still a novice in the electronics aspects), I'd like a second opinion on that pickup design structure
(stacked humbucking or single coil with a stacked dummy coil) on N3's, Vintage Noiselesses, SCN's - which necessarily are not all the same.
A "true stacked humbucker" (like a Di Marzio, which BTW is splittable) sounds IMHO very different from Fender Noiselesses, that's why I wonder.


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