It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:28 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 77 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:59 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:46 am
Posts: 1019
Location: State of Confusion
BMW-KTM wrote:
This is getting fun!




Image

Actually, I'm getting bored with the nonsense. Think I'm going to the top of the page and click 'unsubscribe'. Bye....

_________________
The quintessential sound of 60/70's R&R:
Fender Tube Amps
Gibson Guitars


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:04 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:50 pm
Posts: 7998
Location: ʎɹʇunoɔ ǝsoɹ pןıʍ
When I don't know something I ask. I learn stuff here all the time. When I know stuff I share it and this is something I know because I have wrestled with this issue off and on from both sides of the fence pretty much my whole life. I have no ill will at all for people honestly searching for good info but he lashes out at the very people who can help him and that ain't cool.

So ..... I intend to watch the final seconds of his self destruct sequence.


(More butter on the popcorn, please)

_________________
Image
Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:38 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:35 pm
Posts: 807
Location: Just East of Event Horizon
BMW-KTM wrote:
When I don't know something I ask. I learn stuff here all the time. When I know stuff I share it and this is something I know because I have wrestled with this issue off and on from both sides of the fence pretty much my whole life. I have no ill will at all for people honestly searching for good info but he lashes out at the very people who can help him and that ain't cool.
So ..... I intend to watch the final seconds of his self destruct sequence.

Image

Not surprisingly, I have no idea what you or the others scholars on this train wreck are talking about in the last few posts so I will not attempt to respond to that nonsense.
But what I do know is that while all of the disciples are good at shooting blanks at me, you have all proven to be incapable of providing a reasonable explanation to support the baseless, mystical theory, that the wood affects the tone of an electric guitar.


Last edited by MickJagger on Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:02 am
Offline
Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:00 am
Posts: 261
MickJagger wrote:
Not surprisingly, I have no idea what you or the others scholars on this train wreck are talking about in the last few posts so I will not attempt to respond to that nonsense.

Too easy.

Quote:
you have all proven to be incapable of providing a reasonable explanation to at to support the baseless, mystical theory, that the wood affects the tone of an electric guitar.

And you have been proven to be incapable of providing a reasonable explanation why it shouldn't.

But seriously, assuming you are right, why aren't there millions of guitars made of the cheapest wood or plastic combined with the most high-end tuners, pickups and bridges? Surely it makes no sense for every single guitar player to spend money on a component that does not matter in the slightest? Why aren't you a billionaire by now?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:45 am
Offline
Amateur
Amateur
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:22 pm
Posts: 141
Its only an issue if you're as obsessed as I am.
Otherwise its not such a big deal, rhythm players don't really need to bother.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:58 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:35 pm
Posts: 807
Location: Just East of Event Horizon
ChrisH1 wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
Not surprisingly, I have no idea what you or the others scholars on this train wreck are talking about in the last few posts so I will not attempt to respond to that nonsense.

Too easy.

Quote:
you have all proven to be incapable of providing a reasonable explanation to at to support the baseless, mystical theory, that the wood affects the tone of an electric guitar.

And you have been proven to be incapable of providing a reasonable explanation why it shouldn't.

But seriously, assuming you are right, why aren't there millions of guitars made of the cheapest wood or plastic combined with the most high-end tuners, pickups and bridges? Surely it makes no sense for every single guitar player to spend money on a component that does not matter in the slightest? Why aren't you a billionaire by now?

You should return to high school and at least obtain a high school education, before continuing to ask me such foolish questions.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:46 pm
Offline
Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:00 am
Posts: 261
MickJagger wrote:
You should return to high school and at least obtain a high school education

What is it with you and high school? I already told you I never went, so asking me to "return" there is just stupid.
This might make your head explode, but there actually are countries with education systems where you don't have to spend years and years in the same school with all the morons who will never make it to college. (No offense meant to any other readers, just answering in kind.)

Quote:
ask me such foolish questions.

In other words you don't want to answer my question, because the answer is that body material does matter after all.
Thanks for that, I'm out of here.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:17 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:50 pm
Posts: 4602
Location: ˚ɷ˚
MickJagger wrote:
The vibrational energy of the strings will always be greater than any wood vibration energy returning to the strings (assuming that this actually occurs), which will be necessarily cancelled out by the greater vibrational energy of the strings.
For this reason, wood vibration has absolutely no affect on string vibration or on the amplified tone of an electric guitar, other than a possible slight dampening affect that is beyond the realm of human sonic perception.

Utter bull. There is no "necessarily cancelled out". Put two vibrations on top of each other, and they add to each other, no matter whether one is stronger than the other. A new vibration pattern will occur that is not the same as the strongest signal. Cancelling only occurs when the two vibrations are the same amplitude and exactly out of phase.

When adding two signals, the result can be quite unlike the original. Here's an example of two waveforms added together. The result is unlike both of them.

Image

And here's an image showing the effects of a much smaller second order harmonic that causes standing waves:

Image

You clearly don't understand how sound vibrations work. They are cumulative, not competing.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:41 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:18 am
Posts: 668
Location: Willowdale, Canada
arth1 wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
The vibrational energy of the strings will always be greater than any wood vibration energy returning to the strings (assuming that this actually occurs), which will be necessarily cancelled out by the greater vibrational energy of the strings.
For this reason, wood vibration has absolutely no affect on string vibration or on the amplified tone of an electric guitar, other than a possible slight dampening affect that is beyond the realm of human sonic perception.

Utter bull. There is no "necessarily cancelled out". Put two vibrations on top of each other, and they add to each other, no matter whether one is stronger than the other. A new vibration pattern will occur that is not the same as the strongest signal. Cancelling only occurs when the two vibrations are the same amplitude and exactly out of phase.

When adding two signals, the result can be quite unlike the original. Here's an example of two waveforms added together. The result is unlike both of them.

Image

And here's an image showing the effects of a much smaller second order harmonic that causes standing waves:

Image

You clearly don't understand how sound vibrations work. They are cumulative, not competing.

Well put, Arth1, +1
A 'subtraction' would occur for vibrations of the same frequency, but 180 degrees out of phase.

_________________
......it's a topsy-turvy world when noses run and feet smell...


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:05 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:35 pm
Posts: 807
Location: Just East of Event Horizon
ChrisH1 wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
You should return to high school and at least obtain a high school education

What is it with you and high school? I already told you I never went, so asking me to "return" there is just stupid.
This might make your head explode, but there actually are countries with education systems where you don't have to spend years and years in the same school with all the morons who will never make it to college. (No offense meant to any other readers, just answering in kind.)

Quote:
ask me such foolish questions.

In other words you don't want to answer my question, because the answer is that body material does matter after all.
Thanks for that, I'm out of here.



Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:45 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:35 pm
Posts: 807
Location: Just East of Event Horizon
arth1 wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
The vibrational energy of the strings will always be greater than any wood vibration energy returning to the strings (assuming that this actually occurs), which will be necessarily cancelled out by the greater vibration energy of the strings.
For this reason, wood vibration has absolutely no affect on string vibration or on the amplified tone of an electric guitar, other than a possible slight dampening affect that is beyond the realm of human sonic perception.

Utter bull. There is no "necessarily cancelled out". Put two vibrations on top of each other, and they add to each other, no matter whether one is stronger than the other. A new vibration pattern will occur that is not the same as the strongest signal.

Arth1, you finally came to the party!!
First, let me say that I believe that the amplitude of any "reflected" vibration from the body to the strings is either non-existent or nearly non-existent, as the body absorbs most if not all of the vibration energy that it receives.
Even you cannot be deny that any "reflected" vibration from the body to the strings must be largely diminished from the amplitude of the source vibration due to body absorption.

Assuming that the two vibrations are "in-phase" (which is a huge secondary assumption regarding a reflected wave pattern) a new vibration pattern will not occur if the frequency is the same, and the amplitude of the reflected vibration is de minimis.
If the amplitude of the reflected vibration is not de minimis, all that could possibly happen to the vibration wave pattern is that the amplitude would increase.
This would merely produce increased volume and sustain with no change in tone.
Due to the diminished nature of the reflected vibration due to absorption, any change in volume or sustain would likely be beyond the realm of human perception.
You provide no explanation as to how the reflected vibration can possibly have a difference in frequency from the string source to provide a different wave form in the strings and a difference in tone.
arth1 wrote:
Cancelling only occurs when the two vibrations are the same amplitude and exactly out of phase.

Close, but no cigar.
There is no requirement that the amplitude of the two vibrations be the same, to cancel one (1) of the two vibrations.
In all likelihood and "reflected" diminished vibration from the body to the strings, to the extent that this actually occurs, which is highly doubtful to any meaningful degree; is out of phase with the string source vibration, as this example of "reflection from a hard boundary" shows.
The reflection creates a wave pulse that propagates with the same frequency and amplitude as the incident wave, but with opposite polarity.
With a guitar body, due to vibrational absorption, the amplitude would be diminished.

Image
When the two vibrations are "out of phase" and the amplitude of the reflected vibration is largely diminished from the amplitude of the string source vibration due to body absorption, the diminished amplitude wave will be cancelled by interference from the string source, higher amplitude wave.
The string source, higher amplitude vibration wave may possibly be slightly dampened by interference from the cancelled wave.
Once again, all that could possibly happen is that the amplified sound would be dampened in terms of volume and sustain.
Due to the diminished nature of the reflected vibration due to absorption, any change in volume or sustain would again be beyond the realm of human perception.

arth1 wrote:
When adding two signals, the result can be quite unlike the original. Here's an example of two waveforms added together. The result is unlike both of them.

Image


This example that you provide is absent any context and is completely useless.
But it does make you look like you actually know what you are talking about.
Clearly, it is not an example of "reflected vibration."
This example is like hitting a hammer and a screw driver on a table at the same time.
This has nothing to do with guitar vibration.

arth1 wrote:
And here's an image showing the effects of a much smaller second order harmonic that causes standing waves:

Image

You clearly don't understand how sound vibrations work. They are cumulative, not competing.

This is another example that you have pulled from the internet which has no context with this discussion.
Again, while this graphic makes you look like a genius to the low information, tone wood disciples, and high school drop-outs, it again has no reasonable application to this discussion.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:42 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:20 pm
Posts: 496
OK. I think I found my answer on another thread.

Back in "The Vintage Days" the G string was wound and intonated much the same as the D so they were able to share the same saddle without any problem(especially since back then they didn't have modern tuners that would give you a red light even though it was close enough that the human ear couldn't tell the difference). After the G string became plain, it didn't intonate the same as the wound D. If you adjusted the saddle to intonate the G properly the D would be off and vice versa.

Just wondering - has anyone tried using a wound D string from a lighter gauge set as their G string? I've got an extra set of strings for my 12 string Strat - I'm sure there has to be a wound A or D string in there that is the same gauge as the plain G string that came with the 9's I have on my 3 saddle Tele now.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:26 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:50 pm
Posts: 7998
Location: ʎɹʇunoɔ ǝsoɹ pןıʍ
I tried them some years back. Actually I think I still have one or two single strings kicking around somewhere. I forget exactly what I thought of them but I didn't continue with the practice (obviously) so I couldn't have been too convinced it was worth it.

_________________
Image
Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:09 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:35 pm
Posts: 807
Location: Just East of Event Horizon
fenderfan wrote:
OK. I think I found my answer on another thread.....

Your question was 52 days and 10,000 miles ago.... :lol:


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:37 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:20 pm
Posts: 496
MickJagger wrote:
fenderfan wrote:
OK. I think I found my answer on another thread.....

Your question was 52 days and 10,000 miles ago.... :lol:


Did take awhile and another thread to find the answer - this topic strayed from bridges to wood.

Funny thing is that the answer came on a different thread by a member involved in the wood discussion on this thread.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 77 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: