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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:45 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
....You're grasping at straws. I won't respond to you again. I won't waste my time if your mind is made up.

You're grasping at straws. I won't respond to you again. I won't waste my time if your mind is made up......
That is because you have no answer.....:lol: :lol: :lol:
nick_s wrote:
I'll leave this here....
(Youtube: "PROOF - Wood Affects Electric Guitar Tone - Chapman "Special Run" Swamp Ash ML-1").

Hi Nick,
Rob Chapman and "the Captain," owners of Chapman guitars, have a financial interest in making you believe that their two ML-1 guitars sound different.
They are almost as convincing as David Blaine is in his street magic shows, in a Wayne's World entertainment format. :wink:

Obviously, the two (2) Chinese neck pickups in these guitars, are different pickups.
While the pickups are apparently of the same design, they have unknown actual resistance, inductance and henries.
Personally, I couldn't distinguish any difference between the bridge pickups.
It is also quite interesting that neither Chapman or the Captain ever touch or refer to the tone controls on these guitars, while stating that all other features of the guitars are the exactly the same, as are the amp settings, using an A/B switch.

The following is a brilliant video "roadmap" of You Tube videos on the "Tone Wood" subject to explore, which references the Chapman Guitars video twice, so....
I'll leave this here....



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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:55 pm
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MickJagger wrote:
Rob Chapman and "the Captain," owners of Chapman guitars, have a financial interest in making you believe that their two ML-1 guitars sound different.

What, you think they want to convince people to buy both guitars? That's BS.

Quote:
Obviously, the two (2) Chinese neck pickups in these guitars, are different pickups.

Obviously, they are not.

Quote:
It is also quite interesting that neither Chapman or the Captain ever touch or refer to the tone controls on these guitars

Yes, they do. Lee explicitly says "everything on full".


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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:06 pm
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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:43 pm
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ChrisH1 wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
Rob Chapman and "the Captain," owners of Chapman guitars, have a financial interest in making you believe that their two ML-1 guitars sound different.

What, you think they want to convince people to buy both guitars? That's BS..

WOW!!
That amazing!!
A guitar company that is not interested in selling guitars.... :shock:
You have amazing insight my friend!!
ChrisH1 wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
Obviously, the two (2) Chinese neck pickups in these guitars, are different pickups.

Obviously, they are not.

WOW!!
That too is amazing!!
Chapman and the Captain are playing the same guitar at the same time, and are able to make it change colors while each is playing the same guitar at the same time!!!
I was wrong.
These guys are actually better than David Blane's street magic in Wayne's World drag.!!! :roll:
ChrisH1 wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
It is also quite interesting that neither Chapman or the Captain ever touch or refer to the tone controls on these guitars

Yes, they do. Lee explicitly says "everything on full".

Agreed, they do say that, I stand corrected.

Now instead of shooting mostly blanks at me and talking gibberish, why don't you watch this exceptional video, take some notes and perhaps watch some of the videos described, and then explain how it is that you believe that the wood in the neck or the body, or the type bridge, for that matter, alters the tone of an electric guitar, which is produced by metal strings vibrating at a particular frequency and intensity, within the magnetic field of the pickup, which is reproduced by the amp.



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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:56 pm
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MickJagger wrote:
stratist2 wrote:
three vintage style saddles sound differently than six saddles - there is more pressure on the telebridge plate with three saddles - it sounds more authentic with Leo Fenders first Tellies


The only thing that affects amplified sound is the vibration frequency and amplitude (how hard you hit the strings) of the strings passing through the unique magnetic field of each pickup.
Once you fully understand how an electric guitar functions, you will understand these laws of physics.
The wood and the bridge saddles have no discernible affect on amplified sound other than possibly a subjective "placebo" effect.
[/quote]

I think you are right, the amplified sound is merely the result of the string vibration which is affecting the magnetic field of the pickup. But, I firmly believe that the string vibration modes are affected by the whole guitar intended as a system, especially the two string contact points. A string will vibrate differently if you change saddle, nut, but also body wood or any other component that contribute to the string vibration mode. When you pluck a string the whole guitar vibrates, the string vibration mode has to be affected by this.
So, I'm also convinced that the sound is a result of the whole system!

Alberto


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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:48 pm
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guitarman1984 wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
stratist2 wrote:
three vintage style saddles sound differently than six saddles - there is more pressure on the telebridge plate with three saddles - it sounds more authentic with Leo Fenders first Tellies


The only thing that affects amplified sound is the vibration frequency and amplitude (how hard you hit the strings) of the strings passing through the unique magnetic field of each pickup.
Once you fully understand how an electric guitar functions, you will understand these laws of physics.
The wood and the bridge saddles have no discernible affect on amplified sound other than possibly a subjective "placebo" effect.


I think you are right, the amplified sound is merely the result of the string vibration which is affecting the magnetic field of the pickup. But, I firmly believe that the string vibration modes are affected by the whole guitar intended as a system, especially the two string contact points. A string will vibrate differently if you change saddle, nut, but also body wood or any other component that contribute to the string vibration mode. When you pluck a string the whole guitar vibrates, the string vibration mode has to be affected by this.
So, I'm also convinced that the sound is a result of the whole system!

Alberto

I agree. Otherwise, why would a semi-hollow vs. a full-hollow vs a solid body guitar (all other things being equal) have different tones? I mentioned this earlier and no one commented.

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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:01 pm
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IM4Tone wrote:
I agree. Otherwise, why would a semi-hollow vs. a full-hollow vs a solid body guitar (all other things being equal) have different tones? I mentioned this earlier and no one commented.
Yah .... I've asked that question with no response too.

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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:58 pm
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Why would you need a body at all? Just get a long neck and screw the bridge into it. Like this:
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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:42 pm
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IM4Tone wrote:
guitarman1984 wrote:
BMW-KTM wrote:
I think you are right, the amplified sound is merely the result of the string vibration which is affecting the magnetic field of the pickup. But, I firmly believe that the string vibration modes are affected by the whole guitar intended as a system, especially the two string contact points. A string will vibrate differently if you change saddle, nut, but also body wood or any other component that contribute to the string vibration mode. When you pluck a string the whole guitar vibrates, the string vibration mode has to be affected by this.
So, I'm also convinced that the sound is a result of the whole system!
Alberto

I agree. Otherwise, why would a semi-hollow vs. a full-hollow vs a solid body guitar (all other things being equal) have different tones? I mentioned this earlier and no one commented.

Yah .... I've asked that question with no response too.

The answer is a semi-hollow vs. a solid body guitar (we are not talking about electric-acoustic guitars) will not have any different sound.

If you take a Thinline Telecaster and test it with the exact same pickups, with a solid body Telecaster....;
- And the same pup is identically positioned, relative to the nut and bridge on the two guitars;
- And the same pup is the same distance from the strings;
- And the action and intonation set-up of the neck is the same on both guitars
- And the strings are the same size and both guitars are tuned identically;
- And the two guitars are strummed in the same manner and intensity:

Then the amplified sound should be identical, when both guitars are played through the same amp at identical settings, or otherwise, any difference should be beyond the ability of the human ear to perceive any difference.
ChrisH1 wrote:
Why would you need a body at all? Just get a long neck and screw the bridge into it..


Technically, that is all that is necessary.
I hope that clarifies the issue.


Last edited by MickJagger on Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:58 pm
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^^ It clarifies your position/opinion, but I don't buy it.

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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:17 pm
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IM4Tone wrote:
^^ It clarifies your position/opinion, but I don't buy it.

The body and neck absorb vibration.
The body and neck do not transmit vibrational energy to the strings.


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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:43 pm
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MickJagger wrote:
The body and neck absorb vibration.
The body and neck do not transmit vibrational energy to the strings.


So, you're saying this is sort of an "inelastic collision" where the wood only absorbs the string vibration energy, and does not reflect any of it back?

(I may be troll feeding here, but...)


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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:05 am
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MickJagger wrote:
The answer is a semi-hollow vs. a solid body guitar (we are not talking about electric-acoustic guitars) will not have any different sound.

Yes it does.

Quote:
Then the amplified sound should be identical

Ah, now we are at "should". Have you even had a guitar in your hands, ever?

Quote:
Technically, that is all that is necessary.

I know, that's why I brought it up. And yet, pretty much nobody uses those. Why is that? Surely the money saved in the body could then be spent on the pickups and hardware and make the sound so much better?


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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:11 am
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jmattis wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
The body and neck absorb vibration.
The body and neck do not transmit vibrational energy to the strings.


So, you're saying this is sort of an "inelastic collision" where the wood only absorbs the string vibration energy, and does not reflect any of it back?

That is correct.
It is the same as throwing a rock into a pond.
The ripples never "reflect" back toward the rock.

"The Principia" was published by Sir Isaac Newton in 1687, in which he stated his three Universal Laws of Motion.
As you should know, Newton's Third Law of Motion is that "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."
While the ripples in the pond never "reflect" back toward the rock, the reactive force of the water slows and eventually dissipates the energy of the ripples until the ripples eventually stop.

The same is true with a guitar.
The wood vibration from the strings acts only to dissipate the vibrational energy of the strings.
Obviously there are many forces in addition to wood vibration which also act to dissipate the vibrational energy of the strings.

The key is that there is no source of vibrational energy in the body or neck that can "reflect" back to the strings and change the vibrational qualities of the strings, or the tone or sound.
Absent a source of vibrational energy in the body or neck, your idea that vibration in the body or neck from the strings, should act to "reflect" back to the strings, would violate Newton's Third Law of Motion.
It would require a reaction that is greater than the initial action.

However, if you beat on the body of an electric guitar, that source of energy in the body will be transmitted to the strings and to the pickups.
Hopefully you now understand how these very basic principles of physics apply to the vibrational energy of an electric guitar and why the vibration of the wood has no affect on the sound or tone of an electric guitar.


Last edited by MickJagger on Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:44 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:33 am
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ChrisH1 wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
The answer is a semi-hollow vs. a solid body guitar (we are not talking about electric-acoustic guitars) will not have any different sound.

Yes it does.

That is absolute nonsense if the pickups, set-up and amp are identical.
ChrisH1 wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
Then the amplified sound should be identical

Ah, now we are at "should". Have you even had a guitar in your hands, ever?.

If you would prefer to substitute "is" for "should," please be my guest.
Did you drop out of high school, or are you just trying impress us with your puerile wit?
ChrisH1 wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
Technically, that is all that is necessary.

I know, that's why I brought it up. And yet, pretty much nobody uses those. Why is that? Surely the money saved in the body could then be spent on the pickups and hardware and make the sound so much better?

Perhaps because they are ugly, ergonomically atrocious, and basically feel like sh*t.
Do you need any more reasons, Maestro??


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