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Post subject: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:16 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Better intonation adjustment with 6 saddles. Why are there so many Squier Teles with 6 and so many MIA and Custom Shops with 3? Just to look vintage?


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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:50 pm
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It's a vintage thing.

It is easier to properly intonate using 6 individual saddles, but you can also get perfect results w/ the 3-saddle bridge.

They make compensated saddles and these are good, then there's the old school trick of bending the saddle screw slightly, esp. on the D/G saddle.

I own 3 Telecasters and between them they have each kind of bridge, and they are all properly intonated.

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:31 pm
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I have one of each and both seem fine but as a general rule most people seem to say the 3's aren't near as good. Yet a lot of Custom Shop Teles have 3 while a lot of Squiers have 6.


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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:08 am
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I have both of them too.

With a accurate tuner like Peterson VSII you can see the 3 saddles are less in tune than 6 saddles .
Can you hear it ?


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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 3:25 am
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One part of the 3 saddle bridge is the sound - be it psychological or real, some prefer the vintage saddle sound to the modern one.

This whole "perfectly intonated" ideology is in big part based on these modern electronic tuners and their "1 cent off" displays. A guitar is never "perfectly intonated" on every fret and every string...
The "properly intonated" that Lightnin MN talks about is a) enough for a human ear and b) achievable on both vintage and modern bridges.


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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:12 am
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jmattis wrote:
One part of the 3 saddle bridge is the sound - be it psychological or real, some prefer the vintage saddle sound to the modern one.

This whole "perfectly intonated" ideology is in big part based on these modern electronic tuners and their "1 cent off" displays. A guitar is never "perfectly intonated" on every fret and every string...
The "properly intonated" that Lightnin MN talks about is a) enough for a human ear and b) achievable on both vintage and modern bridges.

Agreed...much to do about nothing (or at least unnecessary perfection). Fretting and picking technique will produce more variation IMO.

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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:10 am
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three vintage style saddles sound differently than six saddles - there is more pressure on the telebridge plate with three saddles - it sounds more authentic with Leo Fenders first Tellies


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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:43 pm
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The pressure on the bridge plate (I call it downforce) depends on many factors. The string gauge, height, angle on the bridge etc.
But you're right, bigger downforce does seem to have an effect on the sound - e.g. Roy Buchanan had a high action to get the string angle over the bridge bigger. (Shimming the neck gives same/similar results with lower action.)
But: that trick can be utilized on both vintage and modern saddles...


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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 4:28 pm
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stratist2 wrote:
three vintage style saddles sound differently than six saddles - there is more pressure on the telebridge plate with three saddles - it sounds more authentic with Leo Fenders first Tellies

I must again rain on the parade of logical fallacies.
Bridge saddles and the wood of an electric guitar have no sonic effect on amplified sound that can be distinguished by the human ear.
This assumes use of the exact same pickups with the same strings and string to pickup adjustment.
Guitars with different woods and different bridge saddles may sound very different when they are not plugged in and are played acoustically.
This has nothing to do with amplified sound in which strings transmit frequency vibrations to the unique magnetic field and pickup capabilities of the pickup.


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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:01 am
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MickJagger wrote:
I must again rain on the parade of logical fallacies.


Save yourself a lot of stress. The "nothing else matters" quest is doomed to fail. :wink:


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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:27 am
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Aspiring Musician
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MickJagger wrote:
stratist2 wrote:
three vintage style saddles sound differently than six saddles - there is more pressure on the telebridge plate with three saddles - it sounds more authentic with Leo Fenders first Tellies

I must again rain on the parade of logical fallacies.
Bridge saddles and the wood of an electric guitar have no sonic effect on amplified sound that can be distinguished by the human ear.
This assumes use of the exact same pickups with the same strings and string to pickup adjustment.
Guitars with different woods and different bridge saddles may sound very different when they are not plugged in and are played acoustically.
This has nothing to do with amplified sound in which strings transmit frequency vibrations to the unique magnetic field and pickup capabilities of the pickup.


I'm pretty sure that I can tell the difference between monkey metal and bent steel saddles - plugged in or not. Also pretty sure that if I put my MIA pickups into my daughter's cheap plywood Strat clone it isn't going to sound like my MIA. I'm sure it would sound better that it does now and a better bridge would help it even more but the tone would still be limited by the cheap plywood body. But yes, pickups have more effect on tone than anything else. Followed closely by the bridge.


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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:22 pm
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fenderfan wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
stratist2 wrote:
three vintage style saddles sound differently than six saddles - there is more pressure on the telebridge plate with three saddles - it sounds more authentic with Leo Fenders first Tellies

I must again rain on the parade of logical fallacies.
Bridge saddles and the wood of an electric guitar have no sonic effect on amplified sound that can be distinguished by the human ear.
This assumes use of the exact same pickups with the same strings and string to pickup adjustment.
Guitars with different woods and different bridge saddles may sound very different when they are not plugged in and are played acoustically.
This has nothing to do with amplified sound in which strings transmit frequency vibrations to the unique magnetic field and pickup capabilities of the pickup.


I'm pretty sure that I can tell the difference between monkey metal and bent steel saddles - plugged in or not. Also pretty sure that if I put my MIA pickups into my daughter's cheap plywood Strat clone it isn't going to sound like my MIA. I'm sure it would sound better that it does now and a better bridge would help it even more but the tone would still be limited by the cheap plywood body. But yes, pickups have more effect on tone than anything else. Followed closely by the bridge.

I've never seen a guitar with a "monkey metal" bridge.....
But if you tested quality, commercially available bridges on a guitar and kept everything else the same, including the action and string height from the pickups, with the same amp, you would never be able to distinguish the difference between bridges.
And if you changed to a plywood body and kept everything else the same, once again you would never be able to distinguish the difference.

The only thing that affects amplified sound is the vibration frequency and amplitude (how hard you hit the strings) of the strings passing through the unique magnetic field of each pickup.
Once you fully understand how an electric guitar functions, you will understand these laws of physics.
The wood and the bridge saddles have no discernible affect on amplified sound other than possibly a subjective "placebo" effect.


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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:43 pm
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jmattis wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
I must again rain on the parade of logical fallacies.


The "nothing else matters" quest is doomed to fail. :wink:

The "nothing else matters" quest is doomed to fail...
....For those who wish to live in the land of make believe, where magnetic pickups can pick up wood vibration coming from the strings or some exoteric sound from bridge saddles.

If you get a really strong magnifying glass, and you look real close, right between the D and G stings, right at the base of the bridge saddles, you might be able to see a tiny emerald castle.
This is where the Wizard of Bridges lives!! :D
Long live logical fallacies!!


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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:10 am
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MJ, If you're into discovering logical fallacies, please explain this:
MickJagger wrote:
The only thing that affects amplified sound is the vibration frequency and amplitude (how hard you hit the strings) of the strings passing through the unique magnetic field of each pickup.

MickJagger wrote:
if you tested quality, commercially available bridges on a guitar

If the bridges don't affect the sound, why use "quality, commercially available" ones, for testing or at all?

(Remember, I suggested you save yourself the stress... :mrgreen: )


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Post subject: Re: 6 saddles vs 3 saddles
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:56 pm
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jmattis wrote:
MJ, If you're into discovering logical fallacies, please explain this:
MickJagger wrote:
The only thing that affects amplified sound is the vibration frequency and amplitude (how hard you hit the strings) of the strings passing through the unique magnetic field of each pickup.

MickJagger wrote:
if you tested quality, commercially available bridges on a guitar

If the bridges don't affect the sound, why use "quality, commercially available" ones, for testing or at all?

(Remember, I suggested you save yourself the stress... :mrgreen: )

I suggested using commercially available bridges because some folks are apparently using "Monkey Metal" bridges, and I can't guarantee that Monkey Metal bridges do not alter the sound of the strings in some manner.

Also, if someone has a bridge made from alkali metals such as lithium (Li), sodium (Na), potassium (K), rubidium (Rb), caesium (Cs), and francium (Fr), and the bridge melts, explodes or bursts into flames from the sweat from your hands, I obviously cannot guarantee that this will not affect the sound of an electric guitar: :mrgreen: :twisted: :mrgreen:



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