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Post subject: Re: AS IF!.... but what if...
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:15 am
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ebaysux wrote:
Thanks for the info, I am always glad to learn Fender history trivia. I was under the impression that the only USA teles that were not sting through were the models with the bigsby trem system. I do understand they did some odd things in the 80s though...even the Smith Era strats seem really odd to me.

As far as if the string through makes a difference in tone or not I certainly can't confirm but one I heard with the bigsby sounded every bit as good as any other good USA tele so perhaps it really does not make a difference, or if it does it is so small the ear can not tell.

I would think though it might have been a cost cutting reason to use the top loader as it is a few less steps in the manufacturing process and no need for ferrules. Sounds petty but when you add that up with thousands of guitars it certainly does cut cost. The thing is if it did cut cost and makes no difference why did they bother going back to the string through?


I suspect that enough players did think that this made a difference in the sound of the guitar; these Standard Teles weren't exactly hot sellers back in the day. That's probably why there were still stacks of headstock decals with "E4" serial number prefixes left in the parts bin when FMIC bought the company from CBS - they just didn't get into using the "E4" decals because production of the Standard and Elites wasn't that high. It also seems like the Tele models were even less well-received than the 2-knob Strat and the Strat Elite as I've probably seen more American Standard Teles with "E3" serial numbers than I have seen American Standard Strats with them.


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Post subject: Re: AS IF!.... but what if...
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:59 pm
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Makes sense. Also when you consider what was going on in the 80s with hair metal and many guitarists wanting something like this....
Image

It could explain why low production for Fenders then. But the popularity for Fenders came back and it seems the best sellers for Fender happened when they do what they are known best for...vintage style.

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Post subject: Re: AS IF!.... but what if...
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:49 pm
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ebaysux wrote:
Makes sense. Also when you consider what was going on in the 80s with hair metal and many guitarists wanting something like this....
Image

It could explain why low production for Fenders then. But the popularity for Fenders came back and it seems the best sellers for Fender happened when they do what they are known best for...vintage style.


True - of course the JEM is from more like 1987 but there were "superstrats" from Schecter, Charvel and Kramer ruling the roost in 1983. Back then we weren't looking to Fender for something "modern"; we had other choices and looked to Fender for something more "traditional" - they were selling all the Reissue models they could make in 1983 and 1984; the Standards and Elites not so much. That being said the 1985 Contemporary models did well; of course they were lower-cost than the old Standard and Elites since the Contemporary models were MIJ.

By 1987 it seems like we were more ready for something "modernized" from Fender USA as long as they didn't stray as far from the "classic" style as those 1983-84 models did since the American Standards were a hit.


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Post subject: Re: AS IF!.... but what if...
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:24 pm
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I know, I used the JEM as an example of the type of guitar the 80s rock crowd was wanting and not getting from Fender. I am aware of that model as I knew the guy who designed the Jem even before his deal with Ibanez. I even saw the prototype with the "handles" he was doing for Vai before he got them. The guys name is Joe Despagni and was working out of his garage in Long Island NY at the time. I actually had Joe route an old Strat so I could flush in a Floyd Rose and then cut it for a humbucker, tap, and painted it slime green. I could not even imagine thinking about doing that to an older USA Fender now.

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Post subject: Re: AS IF!.... but what if...
Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:01 pm
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John C wrote:
...Fender - they were selling all the Reissue models they could make in 1983 and 1984; the Standards and Elites not so much.
That being said the 1985 Contemporary models did well; of course they were lower-cost than the old Standard and Elites since the Contemporary models were MIJ.

By 1987 it seems like we were more ready for something "modernized" from Fender USA as long as they didn't stray as far from the "classic" style as those 1983-84 models did since the American Standards were a hit.


I don't think that there were that there was much volume of any line of USA Fender guitars sold in 83-84.
Prior to the employee buyout in 85, CBS was already slowing down production at the Fullerton Plant with a plan to move all Fender production to Japan.
Fender USA was completely mis-managed during these years because Fullerton was shutting down as production from Japan was ramping up.
Fullerton was like an American steel mill in 83-84; an old shop with no investment, on its last legs, getting killed by Japan.

While the 83-84 Strat is a true "abortion," I maintain that the 83-84 Tele is a fine guitar (except for the pickups) if you don't mind the 12" radius neck and the huge frets which were popular at the time.
And I still think that the Schaller Elite saddle top loader Tele bridges are way cool and sound great with good pickups.

As for the strings through the guitar affecting the sound, that is all pure rubbish because first, there is no string vibration that extends beyond the bridge saddle contact point on the string; and second, the wood in an electric guitar has absolutely no effect on the amplified sound of an electric guitar, contrary to the vast misguided belief that wood vibration affects tone; a myth that is supported by all of the "tone wood" marketing nonsense that's out there.

Mike Eldred, are you tuned in...??? :lol:


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Post subject: Re: AS IF!.... but what if...
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:31 am
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ebaysux wrote:
I know, I used the JEM as an example of the type of guitar the 80s rock crowd was wanting and not getting from Fender. I am aware of that model as I knew the guy who designed the Jem even before his deal with Ibanez. I even saw the prototype with the "handles" he was doing for Vai before he got them. The guys name is Joe Despagni and was working out of his garage in Long Island NY at the time. I actually had Joe route an old Strat so I could flush in a Floyd Rose and then cut it for a humbucker, tap, and painted it slime green. I could not even imagine thinking about doing that to an older USA Fender now.


I remember reading about the things Joe was doing for Steve Vai prior to the Ibanez deal - didn't he do the flame guitars (or at least the bodies since I recall those as having Performance necks) and that odd-shaped green guitar with all the holes in it that Vai had for the Yankee Rose video (which I believe was among those stolen)?


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Post subject: Re: AS IF!.... but what if...
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:11 pm
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John C wrote:
ebaysux wrote:
I know, I used the JEM as an example of the type of guitar the 80s rock crowd was wanting and not getting from Fender. I am aware of that model as I knew the guy who designed the Jem even before his deal with Ibanez. I even saw the prototype with the "handles" he was doing for Vai before he got them. The guys name is Joe Despagni and was working out of his garage in Long Island NY at the time. I actually had Joe route an old Strat so I could flush in a Floyd Rose and then cut it for a humbucker, tap, and painted it slime green. I could not even imagine thinking about doing that to an older USA Fender now.


I remember reading about the things Joe was doing for Steve Vai prior to the Ibanez deal - didn't he do the flame guitars (or at least the bodies since I recall those as having Performance necks) and that odd-shaped green guitar with all the holes in it that Vai had for the Yankee Rose video (which I believe was among those stolen)?


Yes. He even did a flame bass that was mine but was not supposed to be made into a flame, then sort of "stolen" or could say "taken over" without my knowledge. I will link you to the post about it so I don't have to put the whole story here. There are pics of the bass there as well.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=42097

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Post subject: Re: AS IF!.... but what if...
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:38 pm
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ebaysux wrote:
John C wrote:
ebaysux wrote:
I know, I used the JEM as an example of the type of guitar the 80s rock crowd was wanting and not getting from Fender. I am aware of that model as I knew the guy who designed the Jem even before his deal with Ibanez. I even saw the prototype with the "handles" he was doing for Vai before he got them. The guys name is Joe Despagni and was working out of his garage in Long Island NY at the time. I actually had Joe route an old Strat so I could flush in a Floyd Rose and then cut it for a humbucker, tap, and painted it slime green. I could not even imagine thinking about doing that to an older USA Fender now.


I remember reading about the things Joe was doing for Steve Vai prior to the Ibanez deal - didn't he do the flame guitars (or at least the bodies since I recall those as having Performance necks) and that odd-shaped green guitar with all the holes in it that Vai had for the Yankee Rose video (which I believe was among those stolen)?


Yes. He even did a flame bass that was mine but was not supposed to be made into a flame, then sort of "stolen" or could say "taken over" without my knowledge. I will link you to the post about it so I don't have to put the whole story here. There are pics of the bass there as well.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=42097


Wow - very nice story on a really cool bass; thanks for posting the link as I never get over to the bass forums. I do remember Randy Coven - I hadn't thought about him in years and had not heard he had passed away. Makes me feel old - hell, I am old now at 52!


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Post subject: Re: AS IF!.... but what if...
Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:36 pm
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John C wrote:

Wow - very nice story on a really cool bass; thanks for posting the link as I never get over to the bass forums. I do remember Randy Coven - I hadn't thought about him in years and had not heard he had passed away. Makes me feel old - hell, I am old now at 52!


Well it depends what you consider old. My great grandfather who lived to 103 called all the 70 year olds in the family "kids". Randy was only a few years older then you but still should of had plenty left. Last I spoke to him he was working with Leslie West again doing a Mountain thing. The reasons for his death are undisclosed and all they will let us know is he died in his sleep. But I only have good memories of him..he was kind of a mentor for me in many ways. I was so naive to music and the industry as a kid and if not for him would have been a one dimensional musician like most end up bitter old you know whats lol. He used to get me into clubs when I was underage because he told them I was his bass tech. I guess I was in a way but for bass all you do is tune and plug it in, not really rocket science.

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Post subject: Re: AS IF!.... but what if...
Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:36 am
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I've read the others considered Freddie a very talented piano player--but he didn't agree with them and as time went on he tried to play as little as possible--so cool that he'd still strum a guitar.

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Post subject: Re: AS IF!.... but what if...
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:09 pm
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ebaysux wrote:
Makes sense. Also when you consider what was going on in the 80s with hair metal and many guitarists wanting something like this....
Image


Wow, that is one ugly guitar!


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