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Post subject: Tele neck alignment
Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:26 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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I recently acquired a Blackout Tele and really like the guitar. First thing I do when I get a new guitar is to go through the proper setup recommended by Fender and then make the minor adjustments to fit my playing style. When initially setting the string height I noticed the string saddles had to be raised so high that the saddle screws were almost all the way through and the saddles were tilted at an odd angle in order to achieve proper string height. Every thing except this checks out right, the nut, neck relief,and all is good. I appears that the neck is tilted down in relation to the guitar body. Can the neck be shimmed to raise the front end (headstock end) of the neck and allow me to lower the saddles or is there a shim that can be placed under the saddle plate to raise the string height and allow me to lower the saddles? Any ideas? :?: :?:

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Post subject: Re: Tele neck alignment
Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:44 pm
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Solved my own problem. Placed a .012 shim under the neck to tilt it down and worked great. Plays and sounds great.


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Post subject: Re: Tele neck alignment
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:17 am
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I too have a blackout tele that has the same issue. I've adjusted the rod a handful of times, did a restring with 10's instead of 9's, and even took the neck off then re-assembled it. I've never had to shim a guitar, looks like this will be my first.


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Post subject: Re: Tele neck alignment
Posted: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:31 pm
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Pickingood, let me tell you that this slight neck adjustment did wonders for this one. Being able to lower the string saddles to proper placement completely changed the tone and made this thing sound wonderful. I made a shim from aluminum sheet approximately .012 thick. I made the shim as wide as the neck pocket with a hole in each end to accomo date the front two neck mounting screws. The shim itself is only about one half inch long from the front of the neck pocket. This provided perfect neck alignment and transformed this thing to a tone monster. After getting the neck alignment perfect had to readjust the pickup heights. :) :)

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Post subject: Re: Tele neck alignment
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:11 am
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It seems that whatever one does is fine if it works for them and they are happy with the tone difference they think they're getting. Some Fenders have an adjustment screw at the neck. Does that setup make the guitar sound different from others? One of my guitar books says a shim has to be wood, and cut to fill the entire neck pocket to make 100% contact with the neck. People talk about the size of the gap in the neck pocket being an important issue and have a hissy if there is any gap at all. Do bolt on necks, or glued ones, or neck through designs really have much to do with tone? All the controversy makes me wonder as long as the guitar is electric, it doesn't matter what the hells what's going on with the neck/body as long as it results in the fret/string relationship you desire to better play it.


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Post subject: Re: Tele neck alignment
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:50 am
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S Bender wrote:
Pickingood, let me tell you that this slight neck adjustment did wonders for this one. Being able to lower the string saddles to proper placement completely changed the tone and made this thing sound wonderful. I made a shim from aluminum sheet approximately .012 thick. I made the shim as wide as the neck pocket with a hole in each end to accomo date the front two neck mounting screws. The shim itself is only about one half inch long from the front of the neck pocket. This provided perfect neck alignment and transformed this thing to a tone monster. After getting the neck alignment perfect had to readjust the pickup heights. :) :)



That, is the proper time to shim. Give yourself some room.
Nice work!
Cheers,
rob

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Post subject: Re: Tele neck alignment
Posted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:34 pm
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S Bender wrote:
Pickingood, let me tell you that this slight neck adjustment did wonders for this one. Being able to lower the string saddles to proper placement completely changed the tone and made this thing sound wonderful. I made a shim from aluminum sheet approximately .012 thick. I made the shim as wide as the neck pocket with a hole in each end to accomo date the front two neck mounting screws. The shim itself is only about one half inch long from the front of the neck pocket. This provided perfect neck alignment and transformed this thing to a tone monster. After getting the neck alignment perfect had to readjust the pickup heights. :) :)


Thanks for the tip. From the video's I've watched and forums read, it appears to be a simple fix. I purchased it used and the guy I got it from was patting himself on the back for the set up he had on it. I havn't been 100% satisfied with it yet and hope the shim does the trick. I love the feel and color of the neck and would rather find happiness with it instead of selling or trading it.


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Post subject: Re: Tele neck alignment
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:08 am
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Hi, I've got an AM STD Tele with tilt adjustment. It adjusts by means of one screw located towards the back of the neck so assume that there is no full contact of the neck/body unless the screw is fully backed off. Backing it off completely can result in unwanted vibrations. Adjustment of the screw doesn't affect guitar tone or sustain. Recommended for use when there is no adjustment available in the bridge adjusting screws (could be up or down). As a starting point, I've read and use, set bridge approximately 1/2 inch (13 mm) above the pickguard or body (bridge adjustment screws here are about half travel and can be adjusted either way). Place straight edge along the frets to bridge and adjust neck tilt so straight edge is approx 5/64 (2mm) below top of bridge. Set string action by bridge adjustment. The tilt adjustment is also a quick fix for fret buzz or high action when conditions change. Hope this helps.
Ross


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Post subject: Re: Tele neck alignment
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:40 am
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When the saddles are raised as high as they can possibly go, it creates extreme break-angles of the strings over the saddles. That does affect tone and sustain, and makes string-bending feel stiffer (it doesn't change the tension of the strings, but it does affect the "stretchiness" of the strings).

So shimming to bring the saddles down into their normal height range does have a tonal effect -- not because of what it does to the neck joint but because of what it does to the saddles.


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Post subject: Re: Tele neck alignment
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:09 pm
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strayedstrater wrote:
When the saddles are raised as high as they can possibly go, it creates extreme break-angles of the strings over the saddles. That does affect tone and sustain, and makes string-bending feel stiffer (it doesn't change the tension of the strings, but it does affect the "stretchiness" of the strings).

So shimming to bring the saddles down into their normal height range does have a tonal effect -- not because of what it does to the neck joint but because of what it does to the saddles.

The break-angle of the strings on the AM Std are already very steep (I'm guessing about 60 degrees) so didn't have a significant affect when using the six piece bridge fitted. Tone and sustain improved dramatically when I reworked a vintage bridge to fit without modifying the /drilling) the guitar body. You are of course correct about the changes brought about lesser break-angles (which appear to be about 45 degrees on a vintage bridge) and is moreso on my banjo where the break-angle is about 30 degrees. and is a part of the setup.


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Post subject: Re: Tele neck alignment
Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:15 pm
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Image

A couple of photos on guitar after shimming the neck, the position of the saddles after shimming, and the shim used (the one on the right). Also the back side of neck with shim installed.
Hope this works I'm not real good at posting images. :roll:

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Post subject: Re: Tele neck alignment
Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:50 pm
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One more try and I'm outa here. :?

[url][URL=http://s1340.photobucket.com/user/Fullyfocussed/media/P2057408_zps06eecf02.jpg.html]Image[/url][/url]

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Post subject: Re: Tele neck alignment
Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:25 pm
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One more. The saddles after shimming the neck.


[url][URL=http://s1340.photobucket.com/user/Fullyfocussed/media/P2057406_zpsed7c7196.jpg.html]Image[/url][/url]

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Post subject: Re: Tele neck alignment
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:44 am
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Why doesn't fender just ship their guitars with shims? Or at least sell them online. I agree with some of the earlier posts, I don't think that the shim affects tone, I've used everything from wood to metal washers and you would never be able to tell the difference.


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Post subject: Re: Tele neck alignment
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:03 pm
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tabeck5 wrote:
Why doesn't fender just ship their guitars with shims? Or at least sell them online.

Many of their guitars do have microtilt, which does much of what a shim does, without a need to take the neck off.
And if you shipped with a shim, how big would it be? There's no telling beforehand how much adjustment you need.
And some guitars will never need a shim, because they don't last long enough to need one, or the wood and humidity doesn't make it needed.

But even so, many people also want to buy a piece of history as part of their dream, and then the guitars have to be made much like they were fifty or sixty years ago. Be it crappy tuners, a truss rod you have to take the neck off to get to, screws that corrode, or a possibility you have to shim the neck one day.


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