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Post subject: Fender MIM wood
Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:57 pm
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Good evening all,

Just curious as to where fender procures the wood for Mexican made instruments vs American made instruments. I have heard that they all come from the U.S. but just want to know if anyone has any facts on the subject

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Roy....


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Post subject: Re: Fender MIM wood
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:55 pm
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It's also my understanding that the wood is shipped to Encinada from the US.

However, I have no definitive proof.

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: Fender MIM wood
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:44 pm
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I've heard that as well but I do not believe that claim has ever been substantiated by an official from Fender. Somewhere in my archives I have a set of pics taken at a factory tour in the MIM plant. (Not my pics) The pics clearly show they CNC machine the body blanks right there in Mexico but I saw no indications where the wood may have been sourced from.

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Post subject: Re: Fender MIM wood
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:53 pm
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The reason I have brought this up is because my son just got an american standard tele
Which is lighter than my mim tele. They both have alder bodies and maple necks so just wondering...


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Post subject: Re: Fender MIM wood
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:31 pm
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newlife15 wrote:
The reason I have brought this up is because my son just got an american standard tele
Which is lighter than my mim tele. They both have alder bodies and maple necks so just wondering...


I do woodworking as a hobby. There are at least a dozen different subspecies varieties of alder, and density also depends on the thickness of the trunk, how close to the heart the wood is from, how far North it's from, and whether it's a shade grown or sun grown tree.
Even between identical guitars made in the same place, there will be varieties. Go to a web site that has a good guitar gallery, like Sweetwater, and check out individual guitars of the same make and model. The weight is listed, and can vary quite a bit.

As for the original question, it wouldn't surprise me if much of the alder wood comes from China.


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Post subject: Re: Fender MIM wood
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:37 pm
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Wow!!! Thats pretty cool about the difference in wood from the same tree...so where would the lighter variety be on the tree?


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Post subject: Re: Fender MIM wood
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 6:50 am
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newlife15 wrote:
Wow!!! Thats pretty cool about the difference in wood from the same tree...so where would the lighter variety be on the tree?

It depends on the species, but for most broad leaved trees like alder, the heartwood (inner wood) is usually denser than the sapwood (outer wood). An exception is very old trees, where the rings grow slower and slower as they age, and the sapwood becomes denser as a result.

In general for hardwood, the farther the rings are apart, the lighter and harder and more resonant the wood is.
For softwood like spruces (often used for classical guitars), it's often the other way around - a wood where the stripes are close may have less resins and sound better.


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Post subject: Re: Fender MIM wood
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 4:04 pm
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Ensenada started cutting body blanks around 1998, if memory serves. They started cutting necks a few years later, around 2002 (if memory serves again).

As for the lumber being shifted to Corona, then the discarded wood being sent south, I doubt it. It's not economic business practice. Pay to ship the same piece of wood 3 times in all, once it's sold.

I suspect it would be far more economical to just get lumber sent straight to Ensenada.

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Post subject: Re: Fender MIM wood
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:26 pm
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nikininja wrote:
As for the lumber being shifted to Corona, then the discarded wood being sent south, I doubt it. It's not economic business practice. Pay to ship the same piece of wood 3 times in all, once it's sold.

I suspect it would be far more economical to just get lumber sent straight to Ensenada.


I think it would make sense to have the lumber cut into usable blocks first, and then shipped to both facilities. I doubt there's any binning, except crap not being sent to either place, and very premium woods going to custom and select.


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Post subject: Re: Fender MIM wood
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:03 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
I've heard that as well but I do not believe that claim has ever been substantiated by an official from Fender. Somewhere in my archives I have a set of pics taken at a factory tour in the MIM plant. (Not my pics) The pics clearly show they CNC machine the body blanks right there in Mexico but I saw no indications where the wood may have been sourced from.

This pic:
Image


Doesn't indicate the wood supplier.

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Post subject: Re: Fender MIM wood
Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:19 am
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OK... Straight out of Fender's Product Training Manual (which a friend, who owns a vintage Guitar store showed me), quote:

"We get our maple from Canada, New England, Michigan and the Appalachian Mts. Our vendors' forests are NOT clear-cut"

"Fender approved alder comes from the Northwest U.S"

"Lightweight swamp ash (or "delta ash") comes from Mississippi and Louisiana where the trees stand in water. This ash is milled in Eugene, Oregon."


90% of MIA and MIM woods come from the US/North America and is purchased through brokers in contract lots using at least five different grades which must meet very demanding specs in terms of the quality, dimension, and moisture content of the wood. This wood is bought as pre-converted specialty product, such as fingerboard blanks, or in rough log or plank form. A subcontractor dries/ages the wood and then mills it into rough blanks which are then sent to Fender in either Encinada or Corona for finished milling.

For overseas production, most of that wood is sourced locally or regionally as most of asia and india have commercial quantities of subspecies of alder, spruce, ash, etc.

Squier Guitars are different as Samick is the main subcontrctor producing these instruments, and they source their own woods (to lesser standards).

Hope this helps.

cheers!

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Last edited by Lightnin MN on Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Fender MIM wood
Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:05 am
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That is absolutely wonderful info....so the difference in price points would seem to be in the electronics and labor?


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Post subject: Re: Fender MIM wood
Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:43 am
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newlife15 wrote:
That is absolutely wonderful info....so the difference in price points would seem to be in the electronics and labor?

Quality of pickups, polyester paint vs polyurethane, more pieces of wood in mim. pots are the same in both.


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Post subject: Re: Fender MIM wood
Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:05 am
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Lightnin MN wrote:
OK... Straight out of Fender's Product Training Manual (which a friend, who owns a vintage Guitar store showed me), quote:

"We get our maple from Canada, New England, Michigan and the Appalachian Mts. Our vendors' forests are NOT clear-cut"

"Fender approved alder comes from the Northwest U.S"

"Lightweight swamp ash (or "delta ash") comes from Mississippi and Louisiana where the trees stand in water. This ash is milled in Eugene, Oregon."


90% of MIA and MIM woods come from the US/North America and is purchased through brokers in contract lots using at least five different grades which must meet very demanding specs in terms of the quality, dimension, and moisture content of the wood. This wood is bought as pre-converted specialty product, such as fingerboard blanks, or in rough log or plank form. A subcontractor dries/ages the wood and then mills it into rough blanks which are then sent to Fender in either Encinada or Coronado for finished milling.


Great info. I would think that the rosewood is imported, and the Koa/Teak/Malaysian used on Select and Custom certainly must be. I'm surprised that they don't also import alder, but as long as they can get enough alder light enough in weight from the Northwest, that's good!


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Post subject: Re: Fender MIM wood
Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:01 am
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newlife15 wrote:
That is absolutely wonderful info....so the difference in price points would seem to be in the electronics and labor?


Not altogether... Fender uses 5 different grades for most of their lumber.

It's probably fair to assume that the Custom Shop gets the choicest cuts from the top grades,

Then you can probably move down the product line.

The bottom MIA line's lumber stocks are likely lower grade than the top MIM lines, etc.

Mexico is not generally known as a prime tone-wood producing country, and NAFTA makes shipping the wood from the US (and shipping it in from Canada) virtually duty and tarriff free.

cheers!

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'11 FSR Am. Vtg. Ltd. Ed. CAR '57 Stratocaster (SN# LE02639)
'14 American Deluxe Ash Stratocaster
'12 Telebration Empress Telecaster
'99 Deluxe Nashville Telecaster
'12 FSR Telecaster HH
'10 Heritage H-535
'99 Martin DC-1E
'13 Lanikai Tenor Ukulele


Last edited by Lightnin MN on Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:36 am, edited 4 times in total.

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