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Post subject: 52 AVRI Telecaster Questions
Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:36 am
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I'm looking at a "new" '52 American Vintage Reissue Telecaster at a major national music store that I am planning to buy.

These guitars have the following attributes: Butterscotch Blonde, Ash body, “Flash Coat” lacquer finish, U shaped Maple neck with a 7.25” radius Maple fingerboard and vintage size frets, American Vintage ‘52 Tele single coil pickups, Original vintage Tele bridge with the 3 Brass saddles, Single line “Fender Deluxe” vintage style tuners, With Tweed case.

My understanding is that the American Vintage line was revised in 2012 by Fender. The butterscotch blond three coat finish is supposedly a slightly ligher color, the sealer was supposedly changed to a nitro based sealer, and it is supposed to come with the modern wiring schematic installed, with instructions to change it back to traditional wiring.

The guitar I'm looking at is a beautiful Tele with a great original set-up, plays great, and the price is right. But I note that the wiring schematic that is installed is traditional wiring.

My questions are what changes did Fender make to the '52 AVRI Teles in 2012 and when did the new production actually occur; am I correct that the new '52 AVRI Teles should have modern wiring installed; and is there any way to determine the year of the guitar other than removing the neck to check the stamping?


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Post subject: Re: 52 AVRI Telecaster Questions
Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 6:27 am
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MickJagger wrote:
I'm looking at a "new" '52 American Vintage Reissue Telecaster at a major national music store that I am planning to buy.

These guitars have the following attributes: Butterscotch Blonde, Ash body, “Flash Coat” lacquer finish, U shaped Maple neck with a 7.25” radius Maple fingerboard and vintage size frets, American Vintage ‘52 Tele single coil pickups, Original vintage Tele bridge with the 3 Brass saddles, Single line “Fender Deluxe” vintage style tuners, With Tweed case.

My understanding is that the American Vintage line was revised in 2012 by Fender. The butterscotch blond three coat finish is supposedly a slightly ligher color, the sealer was supposedly changed to a nitro based sealer, and it is supposed to come with the modern wiring schematic installed, with instructions to change it back to traditional wiring.

The guitar I'm looking at is a beautiful Tele with a great original set-up, plays great, and the price is right. But I note that the wiring schematic that is installed is traditional wiring.

My questions are what changes did Fender make to the '52 AVRI Teles in 2012 and when did the new production actually occur; am I correct that the new '52 AVRI Teles should have modern wiring installed; and is there any way to determine the year of the guitar other than removing the neck to check the stamping?


Can't say when a different wiring scheme was employed, but for the date, try the Guitar Dater Project.

GDP doesn't have my FSR Am. Vtg. Ltd. Ed. '57 Stratocaster in it's database, but that's probably because it's a Ltd. Ed. (supposedly 1/46) within the series itself.

This site also has several resources for dating Fender gear. There is the US Instruments Product Dating page as well as the Odd Serial Number Product Dating page .

Hope this helps.

cheers!

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'11 FSR Am. Vtg. Ltd. Ed. CAR '57 Stratocaster (SN# LE02639)
'14 American Deluxe Ash Stratocaster
'12 Telebration Empress Telecaster
'99 Deluxe Nashville Telecaster
'12 FSR Telecaster HH
'10 Heritage H-535
'99 Martin DC-1E
'13 Lanikai Tenor Ukulele


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Post subject: Re: 52 AVRI Telecaster Questions
Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:25 am
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The revised model came out in August 2012; and at that point it did have the revised wiring. They also look "lighter"; the old ones are more tinted to look somewhat more aged.

Also Fender changed the serial number format - the new models now have serial numbers that start with "V" followed by the 2 digits for the year - so the revised models from 2012 have a "V12xxxxxx" serial number, 2013s have a "V13xxxxxx" serial number. The older ones just have a number without any letters.


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Post subject: Re: 52 AVRI Telecaster Questions
Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:43 am
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John C wrote:
The revised model came out in August 2012; and at that point it did have the revised wiring. They also look "lighter"; the old ones are more tinted to look somewhat more aged.

Also Fender changed the serial number format - the new models now have serial numbers that start with "V" followed by the 2 digits for the year - so the revised models from 2012 have a "V12xxxxxx" serial number, 2013s have a "V13xxxxxx" serial number. The older ones just have a number without any letters.

Thanks John.
I think the "new" '52 AVRI Tele that I am looking at must be an older model from 2011-2012. As for the serial number, are you talking about the serial number on the bridge plate, because that is the only number on the guitar? There is no serial number on the headstock. I don't remember seeing a "V" before the number.


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Post subject: Re: 52 AVRI Telecaster Questions
Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:06 am
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Does anyone have any comments as to the changes made to the pickups in the 2012 revised '52 AVRI Telecaster. How do the pickups compare to the older reissue pickups?


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Post subject: Re: 52 AVRI Telecaster Questions
Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:17 am
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MickJagger wrote:
Thanks John.
I think the "new" '52 AVRI Tele that I am looking at must be an older model from 2011-2012. As for the serial number, are you talking about the serial number on the bridge plate, because that is the only number on the guitar? There is no serial number on the headstock. I don't remember seeing a "V" before the number.


Yes - I am referring to the serial number on the bridge plate.


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Post subject: Re: 52 AVRI Telecaster Questions
Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:41 am
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John C wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
Thanks John.
I think the "new" '52 AVRI Tele that I am looking at must be an older model from 2011-2012. As for the serial number, are you talking about the serial number on the bridge plate, because that is the only number on the guitar? There is no serial number on the headstock. I don't remember seeing a "V" before the number.


Yes - I am referring to the serial number on the bridge plate.

So, I assume that if this is an older '52 AVRI Tele with just a number on the bridge plate (which does not begin with "11" or "12"), the only way to check the build date of the guitar without taking the neck off of the guitar would be to call Fender Customer Support with the serial number and request the build date.


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Post subject: Re: 52 AVRI Telecaster Questions
Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:56 pm
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MickJagger wrote:
John C wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
So, I assume that if this is an older '52 AVRI Tele with just a number on the bridge plate (which does not begin with "11" or "12"), the only way to check the build date of the guitar without taking the neck off of the guitar would be to call Fender Customer Support with the serial number and request the build date.


Yes, you would have to send the number to Fender's consumer relations to verify.

Also - the key is the presence of the "V" more so than the first two digits of the number; on the older models it was just a somewhat sequential number going back to when FMIC restarted production (I've read that some of the numbers from the 2 years of CBS production are repeated for the first years of FMIC production).


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Post subject: Re: 52 AVRI Telecaster Questions
Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:37 pm
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John C wrote:
Yes, you would have to send the number to Fender's consumer relations to verify.

I checked out the '52 AVRI Tele again tonight and got the bridge plate serial number. I'm going to call Fender tomorrow with the serial number. When I questioned the music store sales people about the guitar not being a current year guitar, because it had traditional wiring installed, they claimed to not know what changes were made to the '52 AVRI Teles in 2012.

They tried to check the build date of the guitar with the serial number, but claimed that the number could not check the build date, and that the neck would have to be removed to find the build date.

I also saw the tweed case for the first time, which did not have any of the original paperwork, nor the manual, nor the strap, nor the replacement six saddle bridge, nor the guitar cord. It did have the keys to the case. They told me they would replace the items. I didn't make a big deal out of it at this time....

On the positive side, I A/B tested the 52 AVRI against a 58 AVRI and a 64 AVRI through a little 15 watt Bad Cat amp without reverb. I didn't like the sound of the '58 at all, which was very bright in comparison. The '64 was much closer in tone quality, but the sound of the '52 was more "harmonic" sounding, with greater depth of sound, with the '64 having a "flatter," more one dimensional sound. This difference was surprisingly quite noticable using the neck pickup and testing with single G and A bar cord comparisons.

Unfortunately I forgot to take a picture of the '52 AVRI, which has tremendous grain markings. I will post a picture at a later time. All in all, I love the guitar, but hate to buy a possibly used guitar, sold as "new," at a new guitar price, which is additionally a "blem," with a filled bandsaw line on the high E side of the guitar body.....


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Post subject: Re: 52 AVRI Telecaster Questions
Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:31 pm
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MickJagger wrote:
On the positive side, I A/B tested the 52 AVRI against a 58 AVRI and a 64 AVRI through a little 15 watt Bad Cat amp without reverb. I didn't like the sound of the '58 at all, which was very bright in comparison. The '64 was much closer in tone quality, but the sound of the '52 was more "harmonic" sounding, with greater depth of sound, with the '64 having a "flatter," more one dimensional sound. This difference was surprisingly quite noticable using the neck pickup and testing with single G and A bar cord comparisons.


There are always going to be individual variations, for sure, even when the re-issues use the same pickup interiors.
When doing A/B comparisons, make sure you check the pickup height and put fresh identical strings on all of them. Not being able to use nickel strings for long, I've discovered how the tonal quality can change radically with different strings, even if they are the same thickness and stiffness. And in stores, strings tend to be changed to whatever is the preference of the clerk who last changed them.

(Off-topic, but am I the only one who read AVRI Telecaster and thought AVRO Lancaster?)


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Post subject: Re: 52 AVRI Telecaster Questions
Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:31 am
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arth1 wrote:
There are always going to be individual variations, for sure, even when the re-issues use the same pickup interiors.


You are correct that pickup height and strings can make a difference. However, the pickups on these guitars are supposed to be different, and would certainly account for the difference between the '52 and the '58 AVRI Teles. If the strings were dead on the '64, which is unlikely, that could account for the difference. My experience with pickup height is that it varies the intensity of the sound, not the actual voicing.


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