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Post subject: Re: How to shield a blacktop telecaster HH?
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2013 12:42 pm
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distante wrote:
Sorry guys! I was travelling.

MickJagger wrote:
The problem is a grounding problem at the bridge.


Hi Mick! Do you have any idea of how to fix this?


distante,
Here are some pictures of a Telecaster that I built which is from the following link.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=53915

You might want to start by just running another ground wire that contacts or is soldered onto the bridge, to see if that cures your grounding problem.

As you can see in the pictures below, if you copper shield the guitar, it also should be grounded, by soldering a ground wire to the copper shielding and soldering where the shielding tape overlaps, as the adhesive on the tape can limit the ground transfer. Put a piece of electrical tape over the copper shielding under the pickup contact wires so that there is no chance for the pickup contacts to ground out.

Next, you'll notice that a ground wire runs to the bridge at the bottom left bridge pickup adjustment screw hole on the bridge pickup in the 5th picture below. This contacts the bridge. I also run the shielding under the bridge to assure that the bridge is adequately grounded.

If you still have a hum when not touching the strings, resolder all of your grounds which are normally on top of the pots. Or in the alternative, remove all of your ground wires from the top of the pots and use the "star grounding method" which is shown below. If your Fender guitar has any ground wire running from the top of the volume to the tone pots, remove it as it can cause a ground loop hum.

Hope that the following which I lifted from the Tele build cited above helps:

The depth of both the bridge pickup cavity and the neck pickup cavity had to be deepened with a drill, to accommodate the depth of the SCN noiseless pickups.
I do not have a router, which would have made this a lot easier.

Image

Image

Copper tape was used to shield the control routing.
I also used copper tape for shielding in the pickup routings, even though the pickups are a noiseless design.
A solder link is used to electrically connect the bottom and the side pieces of copper tape, which are grounded with a ground wire from the control routing area that is soldered to the copper shielding in both locations.

Image

Image

Here is the control route shielding with the ground wire that connects to the “ground star.”
Copper shielding is overlapped onto the face of the guitar in order to ground the back of the pickguard which will receive copper shielding, and to assist in grounding the bridge, in addition to a dedicated bridge ground wire which can be seen on the lower left screw post on the bridge pickup in the picture below.
Electrical tape was used to cover the copper tape under the pickups to assure that the pickups would not ground out.

Image

Here is a picture of the "grounding star," where all ground wires connect at a single point and are grounded by the ground wire from the jack.
No wires are soldered to the volume or tone pots and all potential ground loops that may cause a 60 cycle hum are eliminated.
The ground star will be covered with electrical tape.

Image[/quote]


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Post subject: Re: How to shield a blacktop telecaster HH?
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:45 pm
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Thanks for the reply!!!

I will bring my guitar back from the studio tomorrow and try to fix the grounding problem (if that is the case), I tell you later how it went ! :mrgreen:


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Post subject: Re: How to shield a blacktop telecaster HH?
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:54 pm
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So!

I opened the control area and tested the continuity of the metal parts, all the dots in the picture had continuity
Image

Also the yellow one its suppose to be the grounding point (I think) and the continuity with the cable ground is also ok

Can't find any lose point or cable. I was trying to do some test with aluminium metal first (thinking on buy that copper tape that I posted) but really the post from BMW-KTM kind of made me doubt..


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Post subject: Re: How to shield a blacktop telecaster HH?
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:19 am
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I was unable to hear anything the first time I listened to your example sound clip so I listened again only this time I turned the volume up very loud. The noise is rather quiet and it sounds like it only happens when you are not touching the strings. There was a quiet sounding hum before you put your hands on the guitar to strum the chord and the guitar remained silent until you let go of the guitar. It could be a ground issue on the guitar but it could just as easily be some minor thing going on in your amp. It could be some wire in the amp that is too close to some other component. Whatever it is it is pretty darned quiet in my opinion and not something I would obsess over if it were me.

It's hard to help from a distance. If you know somebody who has experience you should have them give it a listen but in all honesty I don't think it's that bad. I have stacked singles (hum cancelling single coils) in many of my guitars and my amp(s) still make some noise when I'm not playing and my Les Paul is also not dead quiet. I think dead quiet might be too much to ask.

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Post subject: Re: How to shield a blacktop telecaster HH?
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:50 am
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That recording was made with the guitar directly into the HiZ input of a Scarlett 2i2.

Now this is made in the same way, but with a shure cable with neutrik conectors and Ik Multimedia Amplitube in the DAW : https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18647900/fender2.mp3

I'm doing this recording in this way so nothing external get in the way of the audio chain.

As you can hear the noise is very loud, If I want to play soft parts in a song, the background noise will be very obvious.

My crappy LP model doesn't had this hum (but It was shielded by a pro), so I suppose I will do the same and send it to the same person.

Regards


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Post subject: Re: How to shield a blacktop telecaster HH?
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:07 pm
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You've got a fair bit of drive going on there.
How much noise to you get when the amp is clean and no pedals are used?

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Post subject: Re: How to shield a blacktop telecaster HH?
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:28 pm
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Yeap I put it drive to make it more noticeable.

I compared the clean sound of the tele with the cheap LP model that I had in the studio and is very (VERY) different; it's impossible to play for instance some blues with the tele in an amp with a little drive, because the quieted notes get lost with the hum.

Anyways i left today my guitar to get shielded by a pro.

Cheers


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Post subject: Re: How to shield a blacktop telecaster HH?
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:24 pm
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distante wrote:
Yeap I put it drive to make it more noticeable.

I compared the clean sound of the tele with the cheap LP model that I had in the studio and is very (VERY) different; it's impossible to play for instance some blues with the tele in an amp with a little drive, because the quieted notes get lost with the hum.

Anyways i left today my guitar to get shielded by a pro.

Cheers


If you're going that route, you might as well go with noiseless pickups.
That is probably the result that you are really looking for if you want LP quiet.
In the pictures above, note that the bridge pickup is a stacked humbucker, Samarium Cobalt Fender noisless pickup, which are now discontinued.

See the thread on noiseless pickups for suggestions other than the current line of Fender noiseless pickups:
"Noiseless pickup suggestions"
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=81562


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Post subject: Re: How to shield a blacktop telecaster HH?
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:41 pm
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Thanks! I will look at that threat.

But I pretty sure that my LP type guitar doesn't have noiseless pickups, is a very cheap corean guitar "Aram" brand :mrgreen:


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Post subject: Re: How to shield a blacktop telecaster HH?
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:54 pm
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distante wrote:
Thanks! I will look at that threat.

But I pretty sure that my LP type guitar doesn't have noiseless pickups, is a very cheap corean guitar "Aram" brand :mrgreen:


Your LP style guitar has "humbuckler pickups," as do all LP style guitars, which by nature, cancel out the hum by the reverse polarity of the dual pole humbuckler pickup.
Therefore they are "noiseless" pickups.


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Post subject: Re: How to shield a blacktop telecaster HH?
Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:45 pm
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Yeap has hambuckers this kind (of course there are not Seymour Duncan!)
Image
So again a n00b question, that kind works different that this:

Image

I just to think that just was the way that the pickups are exposed.

Thank you for share your knowledge !


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Post subject: Re: How to shield a blacktop telecaster HH?
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:06 am
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distante wrote:
...So again a n00b question, that kind works different that this:

Image

I just to think that just was the way that the pickups are exposed.

Thank you for share your knowledge !


Distante, both pickups are humbucklers, just a different design.
Both will cancel 60 cycle hum.

Single coils are sensitive to both 60 and 120 cycle noise.
Humbuckers and noiseless pickups for Fender style guitars (stacked humbucklers)cancel the very loud, low frequency, 60 cycle frequency hum.
But all pickups will sense the 120 cycle frequency.
This can be eliminated by shielding your guitar and having your strings grounded.

That's why if you are looking for a really quiet quitar with no hum, you have to have good shielding that is grounded, your bridge must be well grounded which grounds the strings, and you will need to change to noiseless (stacked humbuckler) pickups.

If you do all three correctly, your Fender guitar will be dead quiet.


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Post subject: Re: How to shield a blacktop telecaster HH?
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:18 am
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Yeap for a moment I though some of there where noiseless.

I will wait for the return of my guitar (tomorrow I think) and there test If I will need to change the pickups .

Thanks a lot for your help, like I said I'm kind of noob in the guitar electronics and design, I'm more handy with recording stuff and post stuff. :oops:

Cheers!


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Post subject: Re: How to shield a blacktop telecaster HH?
Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:31 pm
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So .... it's been a week. Is your guitar ready yet?

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Post subject: Re: How to shield a blacktop telecaster HH?
Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:59 am
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I'm back!!! :lol:

Sorry, I got a stupid cut in my finger with the bread knife and wasn't able to play anything...

So I got my guitar back and now is almost dead silence

Hear:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/18647900/fender_shielded.mp3

:mrgreen:


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