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Post subject: Newbie needs help: how do you adjust the saddles?
Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:23 pm
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So… I have a new 2012 American Standard Tele with some intonation issues… I haven’t been able to find my particular issue in the archive. I’ve also read the set up guide in the support area, and it doesn’t answer my question.

I’m new at this, so thanks for any help as I try to learn how to adjust the set up by myself. I had GC do a tune up three days after I got it (yeah, I know they can be hit or miss), and the intonation is still off. The relief is good; string heights, PUP clearance are good. I have a six-saddle bridge. Guitar is brand new.

Question 1: Strings are original as shipped from factory. I can tell by the manufacturing date they’ve been on the guitar, in the case, detuned, for about 3 months, exposed to whatever environmental/transportation conditions one might expect moving from manufacturing in California to Kansas (where I know it was shipped from) to Washington state. Could this be part of the issue? Need new strings? Maybe the strings are dead?

Question 2: I’ve researched how to adjust intonation.(Fender support page, YouTube vids, the web, etc.). And I know, once a string is tuned, the open string should be in tune with its 12th fret, and with the harmonic on the 12th fret.

I have three strings in particular with issues, the low E, the D and the G. Although tuned open with an electronic tuner, they are sharp at the 12th. The low E and the G, in particular, are more sharp up near the nut and get progressively less sharp as I go up the fretboard. However, even at the 12th, they’re still sharp.

I’ve read I need to adjust the saddles “back” to correct a sharp, but I don’t know how to do that, and the Fender page about set up doesn’t tell you specifically what screws on the saddle/bridge do what.

Is the adjustment forward/back the two tiny screws on top of the saddle (one on either side of the string) or the larger Phillips head located on the back of the saddle/bridge? Which direction do you turn to move the saddle back?

Thanks! I can tell there’s some beautiful tone just waiting to come out, but she needs a little TLC!


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Post subject: Re: Newbie needs help: how do you adjust the saddles?
Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:12 pm
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You said you read the setup guide? Did you read these two sentences under the section on fine tuning intonation?

"If sharp, lengthen the string by adjusting the saddle back. If flat, shorten the string by moving the saddle forward."

Now, looking at your saddles, what screws do you think you would adjust and which way would you turn them to lengthen or shorten the string length?

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Post subject: Re: Newbie needs help: how do you adjust the saddles?
Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:41 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
You said you read the setup guide? Did you read these two sentences under the section on fine tuning intonation?

"If sharp, lengthen the string by adjusting the saddle back. If flat, shorten the string by moving the saddle forward."

Now, looking at your saddles, what screws do you think you would adjust and which way would you turn them to lengthen or shorten the string length?


Well let's see... If guessing is the best way to go... I'll guess the back screws. And I'll guess clockwise to pull the saddle, and therefore the string back? How'd I do?


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Post subject: Re: Newbie needs help: how do you adjust the saddles?
Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:02 pm
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B Scribe wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
You said you read the setup guide? Did you read these two sentences under the section on fine tuning intonation?

"If sharp, lengthen the string by adjusting the saddle back. If flat, shorten the string by moving the saddle forward."

Now, looking at your saddles, what screws do you think you would adjust and which way would you turn them to lengthen or shorten the string length?


Well let's see... If guessing is the best way to go... I'll guess the back screws. And I'll guess clockwise to pull the saddle, and therefore the string back? How'd I do?


I don't want you to guess. I want you to figure it out and learn.

But yes, you guessed correctly.

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Post subject: Re: Newbie needs help: how do you adjust the saddles?
Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:03 pm
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Now, since adjusting the intonation can affect the string action, guess what you might have to do with the other two screws on each saddle.

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Post subject: Re: Newbie needs help: how do you adjust the saddles?
Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:48 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
Now, since adjusting the intonation can affect the string action, guess what you might have to do with the other two screws on each saddle.


Since I've pulled the string tighter, I've lowered it toward the fret. So I might have to raise the saddle by turning each screw on top of the saddle clockwise to raise the saddle/string?


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Post subject: Re: Newbie needs help: how do you adjust the saddles?
Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:54 pm
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B Scribe wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Now, since adjusting the intonation can affect the string action, guess what you might have to do with the other two screws on each saddle.


Since I've pulled the string tighter, I've lowered it toward the fret. So I might have to raise the saddle by turning each screw on top of the saddle clockwise to raise the saddle/string?


Bingo! Now you are learning how to do a basic setup on your guitar. Did you check and adjust the neck relief before starting all this?

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Post subject: Re: Newbie needs help: how do you adjust the saddles?
Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:11 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
B Scribe wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Now, since adjusting the intonation can affect the string action, guess what you might have to do with the other two screws on each saddle.


Since I've pulled the string tighter, I've lowered it toward the fret. So I might have to raise the saddle by turning each screw on top of the saddle clockwise to raise the saddle/string?


Bingo! Now you are learning how to do a basic setup on your guitar. Did you check and adjust the neck relief before starting all this?


Guitar Center where I bought it checked the relief and no adjustment was needed. Of course they also checked the intonation and that hasn't worked out real well!


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Post subject: Re: Newbie needs help: how do you adjust the saddles?
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:20 am
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B Scribe wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Bingo! Now you are learning how to do a basic setup on your guitar. Did you check and adjust the neck relief before starting all this?


Guitar Center where I bought it checked the relief and no adjustment was needed. Of course they also checked the intonation and that hasn't worked out real well!


Then you should probably check it yourself. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Newbie needs help: how do you adjust the saddles?
Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:09 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
B Scribe wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Bingo! Now you are learning how to do a basic setup on your guitar. Did you check and adjust the neck relief before starting all this?


Guitar Center where I bought it checked the relief and no adjustment was needed. Of course they also checked the intonation and that hasn't worked out real well!


Then you should probably check it yourself. :wink:


Copy that!


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Post subject: Re: Newbie needs help: how do you adjust the saddles?
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:11 am
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Check the side to side angle of the neck, it should be perfectly straight. I had similar intonation problems on a guitar until the neck was perfectly straight in the pocket *and* the relief and string height and saddle adjustments were just right. If the neck is angled too far down to the left looking at it face on, you'll experience the exact problem you are describing now.

There's a quick way to do that adjustment with the strings on while tuned to pitch, but...it's risky and if not done right could cause a catastrophic failure at the neck pocket. So, I'd ask GC to get the side to side angle of the neck correctly or there's another issue.

I get the best intonation with a flatish neck, slightly high action, and pickups at or under spec height -- with all string gauges.

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Post subject: Re: Newbie needs help: how do you adjust the saddles?
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:04 am
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Given that Guitar Center were the one's that were unable to properly intonate the guitar in the first place, they would be the last place I would suggest taking the guitar to.

If you are talking about loosening the four neck bolts and shifting the neck slightly to align it, there is nothing risky or potentially catastrophic about doing it as long as a little care is exercised. First of all, the strings don't need to be tuned to concert pitch. They only need to be tuned tight enough so that the high and low E strings are under tension and not flopping around. The other four strings can be completely loose with just the two Es under tension. Then the four neck bolts are loosened slightly. The guitar body is held tightly under one arm and the other hand grips the headstock. You then pull or push the headstock in the opposite direction that you want the neck heel to move. Its not going to move much. Once the heel is lined up properly, tighten the four screws and tune the guitar to pitch. The other adjustments can then be made as the OP has learned.

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Post subject: Re: Newbie needs help: how do you adjust the saddles?
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:45 pm
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We're getting into an area of adjustment that is way outside my comfort zone. This is a brand new guitar. I guess I would hope it would already be fairly well set up. I suppose there's always tweaking, but pressuring the neck this way and that? In my hands? Yikes! This is my first guitar. I'm hyper about somehow ruining it with something catastrophic.

Worked today to get open strings to match themselves at the 12th fret. Played with adjusting the saddles, including string heights after adjusting string length for sharps/flats. G string is problematic. I get it to match pretty good (open and 12th fret). But it's way sharp near the nut and gets progressively better moving up the neck, fret by fret. So by the 12th fret it's pretty well in tune with itself.


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Post subject: Re: Newbie needs help: how do you adjust the saddles?
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:51 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
Given that Guitar Center were the one's that were unable to properly intonate the guitar in the first place, they would be the last place I would suggest taking the guitar to.

If you are talking about loosening the four neck bolts and shifting the neck slightly to align it, there is nothing risky or potentially catastrophic about doing it as long as a little care is exercised. First of all, the strings don't need to be tuned to concert pitch. They only need to be tuned tight enough so that the high and low E strings are under tension and not flopping around. The other four strings can be completely loose with just the two Es under tension. Then the four neck bolts are loosened slightly. The guitar body is held tightly under one arm and the other hand grips the headstock. You then pull or push the headstock in the opposite direction that you want the neck heel to move. Its not going to move much. Once the heel is lined up properly, tighten the four screws and tune the guitar to pitch. The other adjustments can then be made as the OP has learned.

Same difference. But, I do the adjustment with the strings to tension so that the neck gets pulled way tight into the pocket and this fix always improves tone and sustain and intonation if the neck is not straight and snug in the pocket!

I was merely pointing out this fix as on option since nobody mentioned it.

I'd still take it back to GC and let them fix it...or break it...or replace it if it can't be fixed.

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Post subject: Re: Newbie needs help: how do you adjust the saddles?
Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:41 pm
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B Scribe wrote:
We're getting into an area of adjustment that is way outside my comfort zone. This is a brand new guitar. I guess I would hope it would already be fairly well set up. I suppose there's always tweaking, but pressuring the neck this way and that? In my hands? Yikes! This is my first guitar. I'm hyper about somehow ruining it with something catastrophic.

Worked today to get open strings to match themselves at the 12th fret. Played with adjusting the saddles, including string heights after adjusting string length for sharps/flats. G string is problematic. I get it to match pretty good (open and 12th fret). But it's way sharp near the nut and gets progressively better moving up the neck, fret by fret. So by the 12th fret it's pretty well in tune with itself.


I don't think you need to mess with straightening the neck.

Have you replaced the strings? If not, you probably should. The last time I changed strings on one of my guitars, the G string was dead and refused to intonate no matter how much I adjusted it. This was a brand new set of strings. A second brand new set fixed the problem and the guitar intonated perfectly. Also, don't forget that a guitar is an equal tempered instrument (not going to try and explain that, look it up if interested), the net result of which is that a guitar will NEVER be perfectly in tune with itself at all places on the fretboard. You can drive yourself nuts if you think every note should be in tune with itself every place on the fretboard.

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