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Post subject: Finish issues - curious response from Fender
Posted: Sat May 12, 2012 10:38 pm
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Finish issues on my 2005 Ash Tele.
Under the neck pocket, and then either side of the neck the finish has lifted.
Large areas - the size of a hen's egg.
Funny thing is, this guitar has only minimal playing time - never a gig.
It has spent seven years in my climate-controlled home, inside a large storage cabinet.
So, why would the finish decide to lift off the body after seven years?


Well, I got a most curious response from Fender Customer Service - and manager.

They want to replace the body.

Um.... well, I really like the body I have.
Never seen an Ash body figured as beautifully as the one I bought - and I was looking for thirty years.

Fender says they will not refinish it - no way, no how, never ever.

Okay - I played along.
They sent an Ash body out to an approved repair center for a swap.
Five months later (the finish issue developed at Christmas) I finally get a body.

Underwhelming.

I mean, hey - it's a nice enough Ash body, but nowhere near as striking as what I own.
Now they are sending me another - I'm supposed to wait and choose between the two.

I'm not interested - told their corporate guys as much - we're at an impasse.

They tell me they WILL NOT pay anybody anywhere to refinish my body.
I'm supposed to surrender it in the trade and send it back to them.

Not gonna happen.

Seems the Brothers Schwartz are not willing to discuss the matter.
They feel they have fulfilled their end of the warranty agreement.

And I lose the most beautiful Telecaster I have seen in 30 years of collecting guitars.

Color me fxcking pissed.


Any suggestions - besides eating a refin myself and invalidating a LIFETIME warranty?

Mac


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Post subject: Re: Finish issues - curious response from Fender
Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 1:28 am
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if it the best looking piece of ash you've seen in 30 years, why are you holding out of hope of finding something as good in the next 6 months ? if it was that easy to find a piece of wood as nice as you say yours is, it'd have happened more than once in the last 3 decades.

sounds to me like the chances of finding another body you agree on being on par with what you have is slim to none, unless you wait another 30 years.

if the wood was THAT nice, i'd probably void the warranty. what can really go wrong that cant be fixed easily enough ? unless your fingerboard peels off the neck i cant think of much that you couldnt fix yourself.

got some pics of the guitar ?


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Post subject: Re: Finish issues - curious response from Fender
Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 2:33 am
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I'm sorry to hear about your problem with the finish on your Tele, but I do feel that Fender is more than upholding its warranty agreement here. They are not just sending one new body, but they are sending two to try and alleviate your problem. And in normal circumstances, I'm sure this would provide a complete solution.
But the fact that you are unhappy with this, and are stating that there's no way you're sending your original body back to the factory, leaves Fender in a position where they cannot help you. It is not "The Brothers Schwartz" who are creating a problem!

Fender does not, will not, not ever do a repair or refinish on a warrany issue. Replacement with a brand new part is the only way it will be done. If you are not happy with that, and I suspect that you will not be happy with any replacement body, then you really only have one alternative, and that is to get your own body re-finished, or repaired by you or a professional re-finisher. That way you keep your original body, which is what you really want.


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Post subject: Re: Finish issues - curious response from Fender
Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 8:35 am
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Given the fact that finish problems are not even covered under the Fender warranty as stated here:

"Damage to finishes or cracks, splitting, or warpage of wood due to changes in temperature or humidity, exposure to or contact with sun, fire, moisture, body salts and acids of perspiration, guitar straps, guitar stands/hangers made from vinyl, plastic, rubber or other synthetic materials, any other chemicals or non-Fender-approved polishes."

http://support.fender.com/warranty/FEND ... 1_revC.pdf

Fender is going above and beyond their responsibility in dealing with this issue. Mr. Avelli should either quit whining and accept Fender's offer to choose between two brand new bodies, or have the guitar professionally refinished at his own expense (which I seriously doubt will have any sort of warranty).

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Post subject: Re: Finish issues - curious response from Fender
Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 5:13 pm
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Sounds like complete BS to me


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Post subject: Re: Finish issues - curious response from Fender
Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 5:48 pm
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tbazzone wrote:
Sounds like complete BS to me


Dear Fender: Please find enclosed photos of my guitar which I would like refinished. I am always very careful with it but the last time I used it, it was slightly damaged. Signed, JH.

Dear JH: Your guitar appears to be burned and in pieces. Please explain how that happened so we can determine if the damage is covered under our lifetime warranty or not. Signed, Fender.

Dear Fender: I was attempting to roast some marshmallows on my porch, and lighter fluid accidently splashed on the guitar. I tried to put out the fire by waving the guitar in the air, but I must have accidently hit it against the floor in the process. Signed, JH.

Dear JH: Based on your description, we have determined that the damage to your guitar is not covered under the warranty. However, in the interest of maintaining good customer relations, we are prepared to provide you with a new body at no cost to you. Please return the damaged guitar to us and we will change bodies for you. Signed, Fender.

Dear Fender: Thank you, but I really like this body and want it refinished. Signed, JH.

Dear JH: Sorry, but no. Signed, Fender.

Dear Fender Forum: Let me tell you what Fender said about refinishing my guitar .......

Stranger things have happened. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Finish issues - curious response from Fender
Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 6:21 pm
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moochy13 wrote:
if it the best looking piece of ash you've seen in 30 years, why are you holding out of hope of finding something as good in the next 6 months?

I'm not.
Hence, my post here on the matter.


moochy13 wrote:
if it was that easy to find a piece of wood as nice as you say yours is, it'd have happened more than once in the last 3 decades.
sounds to me like the chances of finding another body you agree on being on par with what you have is slim to none, unless you wait another 30 years.

BINGO!
The last conversation I had on the matter was with Bob Willocks - he stated that he had some empathy.
Related a story about a Bubinga body he found at Fender years ago that was destined for scrap.
Got his hands on it, jumped through a million hoops, and still is the proud owner.
Tells me he completely understands - it's just that Fender has a policy of not refinishing bodies.
Says they aren't even equipped to do so - which is certainly understandable.

(This is also why they have a vast network of warranty repair stations, eh?)


moochy13 wrote:
if the wood was THAT nice, i'd probably void the warranty. what can really go wrong that cant be fixed easily enough ? unless your fingerboard peels off the neck i cant think of much that you couldnt fix yourself.

Yeah - depends on how much work it is to get the poly to release completely.
Might take some incredible sanding to get it clean enough for nitro.
In that case, I'd go back poly - same as Fender would.

As far as the neck - who cares?
It's nothing special - I'd take a replacement for that in a heartbeat.



moochy13 wrote:
got some pics of the guitar ?


I'll have to post some pics of the damage later.
Pics of the Tele in its glory are here;
Image

Image
It came originally with the white guard - I changed it just to see which way it looked best.
Black is traditional - I like white - I dunno.

Image

Image


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Post subject: Re: Finish issues - curious response from Fender
Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 6:24 pm
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Butterscotch wrote:
I'm sorry to hear about your problem with the finish on your Tele, but I do feel that Fender is more than upholding its warranty agreement here. They are not just sending one new body, but they are sending two to try and alleviate your problem. And in normal circumstances, I'm sure this would provide a complete solution.
But the fact that you are unhappy with this, and are stating that there's no way you're sending your original body back to the factory, leaves Fender in a position where they cannot help you. It is not "The Brothers Schwartz" who are creating a problem!

Fender does not, will not, not ever do a repair or refinish on a warrany issue. Replacement with a brand new part is the only way it will be done. If you are not happy with that, and I suspect that you will not be happy with any replacement body, then you really only have one alternative, and that is to get your own body re-finished, or repaired by you or a professional re-finisher. That way you keep your original body, which is what you really want.

Do you work for Fender?


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Post subject: Re: Finish issues - curious response from Fender
Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 6:44 pm
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Mac Avelli wrote:
Do you work for Fender?


Read your warranty:

http://support.fender.com/warranty/FEND ... 1_revC.pdf

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Post subject: Re: Finish issues - curious response from Fender
Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 7:36 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:



First time wasn’t enough?
Do you REALLY think I have not read the warranty?
Come on…

bluesky636 wrote:
Given the fact that finish problems are not even covered under the Fender warranty as stated here:

"Damage to finishes or cracks, splitting, or warpage of wood due to changes in temperature or humidity, exposure to or contact with sun, fire, moisture, body salts and acids of perspiration, guitar straps, guitar stands/hangers made from vinyl, plastic, rubber or other synthetic materials, any other chemicals or non-Fender-approved polishes."

http://support.fender.com/warranty/FEND ... 1_revC.pdf

Good job a-Googling what has already been discussed at length long before your help was available.

Below I’ll rebut your Captain Obvious oversimplification of the matter fully.



bluesky636 wrote:
Fender is going above and beyond their responsibility in dealing with this issue.

No, they are not.


bluesky636 wrote:
Mr. Avelli should either quit whining and accept Fender's offer to choose between two brand new bodies, or have the guitar professionally refinished at his own expense (which I seriously doubt will have any sort of warranty).

Hey – two FANTASTIC ideas!
I bet nobody has thought of either one…

Maybe later I’ll recommend what Mr. Bluesky should do in the way of critical thinking in advance of making “righteous by proxy” posts as if there were issues only he knows of…


Last edited by Mac Avelli on Sun May 13, 2012 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Finish issues - curious response from Fender
Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 7:38 pm
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Okay – you guys ready to wade into the fine print?


“Fender Musical Instruments Corporation (“FMIC”) warrants this Fender brand instrument to be free from defects in materials and workmanship for as long as it is owned by the original retail purchaser…”
The finish damage is a defect in EITHER materials OR workmanship. Fender can choose.
There’s absolutely no way I could have, would have, or through neglect caused this finish damage to occur on the guitar – especially considering the pristine condition it is in otherwise.



“except that pickups, switches, jacks, controls, all other electronic components, tuning machines, hardware, pickguards, plated surfaces, gig bags, cases and case hardware are warranted for a period of one (1) year from the date of original purchase. This warranty applies only to the original retail purchaser when this instrument is purchased from an Authorized Fender Dealer and is subject to the limitations set forth herein.”
Moot point. Has no bearing on this matter.



“Fender has established a network of independent Authorized Fender Service Centers for warranty service. The Fender Dealer from whom you purchased your instrument may also be authorized for warranty service and should be the first point of contact when service of any kind is required for your Fender instrument. To receive warranty service, return the complete instrument to an Authorized Fender Service Center, with your sales receipt as proof of purchase, during the applicable warranty period.”
Done.



“Defective components that qualify for coverage under this warranty will be repaired or replaced (at Fender's discretion) without charge. Remedies beyond normal service repair of any Fender instrument require both an evaluation and confirmation of the defect and a direct recommendation to Fender from an Authorized Fender Service Center for alternative considerations.”
Looks like Fender has some discretion on the matter – says so in writing.
This discretion is EXACTLY what I’m operating on.
An evaluation and confirmation of the defect has been completed, documented, and acknowledged.
A direct recommendation to Fender from an Authorized Fender Service Center has been completed, with the customer’s expectations clearly enumerated.
Fender has refused to refinish the body so far, and I’m asking that they use their discretion to do so.
(Remember – this is THEIR writing that spells that out)



“All transportation, insurance and freight charges associated with warranty service and repairs on Fender instruments are the responsibility of the purchaser…”
The guitar is at the service center in Phoenix.
The corporate headquarters are in Scottsdale, less than 20 miles away.
(This is where EVERYBODY involved in these decisions has an office.)
I volunteered to ship (or hand-deliver) the guitar to them for the sake of clarity.
They declined.



“Limitations and Exclusions
The following items are not covered by this warranty.
1. Fret wear, saddle wear, nut wear, strings and batteries.
2. Setups, adjustments or routine maintenance of any kind.
3. Damage to finishes or cracks, splitting, or warpage of wood due to changes in temperature or humidity, exposure to or contact with sun, fire, moisture, body salts and acids of perspiration, guitar straps, guitar stands/hangers made from vinyl, plastic, rubber or other synthetic materials, any other chemicals or non-Fender-approved polishes.
4. Damage, corrosion or rusting of any hardware components caused by humidity, salty air, or exposure to the moisture, body salts and acids of perspiration.
5. Any damage to an instrument resulting from customization or modification.
6. Normal wear and tear on any part of the instrument, case or gig bag including jacks, controls, switches, plated surfaces, tuning machines, pickguards, zippers, clasps, handles, latches, case hardware etc.
7. All other damage and deterioration due to normal usage, wear and tear, aging, accidents, neglect, abuse, or Acts of Nature.
8. Any instrument, whose serial number is missing, altered or tampered with in any fashion.
9. Any instrument purchased from anyone other than an Authorized Fender® Dealer.
10. Instruments that have been serviced by unauthorized persons (any person other than a Fender Certified Technician at an Authorized Fender Service Center).”

Looks like Item Number 3 would give Fender the universal out – except that it does not apply in any way to this guitar.
Nor do any of the other exclusions.
The problem is of their making.

I have stated that I am in no hurry – I do not NEED the guitar for income and such.
Fender has the latitude of doing this right, as long as it takes.

I paid around $1,000 out the door for this guitar, it would probably cost Fender half that to replace it. It would probably cost the same amount to refinish it at the repair center of their choosing.
I had even volunteered to waive subsequent warranty coverage for the finish.

Now – shall we get into the legalese of implied warranties - and legal precedent?

I don’t want a Custom Shop Tele to make me go away.
(It’s been done.)

I don’t want special treatment.
I simply want what I paid for, and what Fender promised.


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Post subject: Re: Finish issues - curious response from Fender
Posted: Sun May 13, 2012 7:43 pm
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Good luck. You've been offered a solution by Fender which you have refused. I don't think you'll find much sympathy here. :roll:

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Post subject: Re: Finish issues - curious response from Fender
Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 7:34 am
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Mac Avelli wrote:
Butterscotch wrote:
I'm sorry to hear about your problem with the finish on your Tele, but I do feel that Fender is more than upholding its warranty agreement here. They are not just sending one new body, but they are sending two to try and alleviate your problem. And in normal circumstances, I'm sure this would provide a complete solution.
But the fact that you are unhappy with this, and are stating that there's no way you're sending your original body back to the factory, leaves Fender in a position where they cannot help you. It is not "The Brothers Schwartz" who are creating a problem!

Fender does not, will not, not ever do a repair or refinish on a warrany issue. Replacement with a brand new part is the only way it will be done. If you are not happy with that, and I suspect that you will not be happy with any replacement body, then you really only have one alternative, and that is to get your own body re-finished, or repaired by you or a professional re-finisher. That way you keep your original body, which is what you really want.

Do you work for Fender?

No. And I wish you luck in getting this resolved!


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Post subject: Re: Finish issues - curious response from Fender
Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:31 am
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Fender has more than gone the extra mile for this customer. If he won't accept either body then he can pay for refinishing himself. Myself I didn't think it looked all that awesome anyway.


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Post subject: Re: Finish issues - curious response from Fender
Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 10:57 am
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And forgive me for saying so, but as a life-long professional woodworker, if that's the nicest piece of ash you've ever seen in a Fender guitar body in 30 long years, you didn't look around enough. That is serious plain-Jane, plain grain, flat-sawn ash, nothing more.

Image

Image

Frankly, I prefer the tighter ash grain in this guitar body. The best looking wood in guitars is that which has been rift-sawn, accidentally (which happens a lot) or on purpose.

I'll have to side with Fender on this one.

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