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Post subject: push pull tone knob on tele
Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:28 pm
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replaced tone pot in my tele. Have a push/ pull knob and soldered the wires back to the new knob as they were on the old one, but nowI get no signal when I pull the knob up. Apparently I did something wrong but can't find what or where. Any help please? I tried the wiring (service programs) section but when I mention push pull I get no results found.Thanks, Weez

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Post subject: Re: push pull tone knob on tele
Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:54 pm
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MichiganRattler wrote:
replaced tone pot in my tele. Have a push/ pull knob and soldered the wires back to the new knob as they were on the old one, but nowI get no signal when I pull the knob up. Apparently I did something wrong but can't find what or where. Any help please? I tried the wiring (service programs) section but when I mention push pull I get no results found.Thanks, Weez


Welcome.

First, what do you want the push/pull pot to do?

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Post subject: Re: push pull tone knob on tele
Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:48 pm
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Want the humbuckers to play when knob is up and the single coil to play when down, and able to use all 3 toggle positions for tones. Here is what I have discovered.; with current wiring ( 3 way toggle) and knob down I can play humbucker with toggle in all 3 positions getting different tones. With knob up I can play only single coil (bridge) and toggle in bridge pu position. I lose signal if I move the toggle to middle or neck. So I am getting humbucker choices but the (duncan rail) pu with knob down doesn't play as single coil, only my bridge single coil plays with knob up. Possible? Thanks for reply btw.
I would copy wiring on my other teles (same hookup) but they are 5 way toggles and wiring is mostly at toggle. Maybe I will get a 5 way toggle for the 60's baja, the guitar I am working on here, and then just wire like my other teles.

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Post subject: Re: push pull tone knob on tele
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:20 am
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MichiganRattler wrote:
Want the humbuckers to play when knob is up and the single coil to play when down, and able to use all 3 toggle positions for tones. Here is what I have discovered.; with current wiring ( 3 way toggle) and knob down I can play humbucker with toggle in all 3 positions getting different tones. With knob up I can play only single coil (bridge) and toggle in bridge pu position. I lose signal if I move the toggle to middle or neck. So I am getting humbucker choices but the (duncan rail) pu with knob down doesn't play as single coil, only my bridge single coil plays with knob up. Possible? Thanks for reply btw.
I would copy wiring on my other teles (same hookup) but they are 5 way toggles and wiring is mostly at toggle. Maybe I will get a 5 way toggle for the 60's baja, the guitar I am working on here, and then just wire like my other teles.


I think I catch your drift here, please correct me if I'm wrong:

Your aim is to have a stock Tele wiring where additionally, you want the push/pull tone pot (PPP) to have your pickups in single coil mode in the lower position and when the PPP is in the upper position, both pickups are in the humbucking (HB) mode. Premising this is correct, I have one question before we begin, You've mentioned a Duncan Rail. I shall presume this is your bridge pickup. What brand/model is your neck pickup?

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Post subject: Re: push pull tone knob on tele
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:54 am
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almost...I want the bridge pu (stock single coil) to work when the knob is down and be able to use toggle sw. ( 3 position sw) for different tonal selections. Right now, when I choose single coil mode the single coil at the bridge works but only with the toggle in bridge position. I thought that the humbucker/ rail model I have could be used as either a humbucker or as a single coil so I should get a signal from the pu in single coil mode when I move toggle to middle and neck position but I don't. When the knob is up I want the s. duncan humbucker/ rail, in neck position to work (currently it works opposite). To summarize;
Currently: knob down= humbucker and three toggle positions work
knob up= stock single coil at bridge works but only with toggle in bridge
position, no signal if I move toggle to middle or neck position
I am deducing that my humbucker (seymour duncan rail)is not switching to single coil mode. It worked correctly but my tone pot had gone bad and I was just getting mud. I put in new ppot, exchanging wire for wire from old pot to new pot to make sure I got it right. However my problem started after installing new pot.
What I want; knob down= rail to switch to single mode and bridge single coil to function
and toggle work in all three positions
knob up= rail in humbucker mode and toggle to work in all 3 positions
Hopefully I am not confusing you. I want the up/ down to work this way because my other teles work like that. I could live with what I have currently if the rail were working in single coil mode. I am thinking that I must have messed up the wiring somehow when I changed pots. Thank you so much for your time and patience.

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Post subject: Re: push pull tone knob on tele
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:09 am
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Admittedly, I am confused but let's try it again.

Here's my interpretation, again, correct me if I'm wrong:

You want the pickup selector switch to work just like a typical 3 way Tele, regardless of whether the Duncan is in single coil or HB mode?

With the PPP down, you want the Duncan to be in single coil mode and with it up, you want it to be in HB mode?

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Post subject: Re: push pull tone knob on tele
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:34 am
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correctemundo! No matter what my current dilemna is, that is the final result I want!
What I want; knob down= rail (neck pu) to switch to single mode and bridge single coil to function and toggle work in all three positions
knob up= rail in humbucker mode and toggle to work in all 3 positions
Again thanks, as a writer I tend to get too descriptive and sometimes give out way too much info. In hindsight I see where describing the current mode of operation is unneccessary and probably made it confusing, sorry. You are correct in your diagnosis of my desired results.
I have a S. Duncan humbucker rail at the neck and a stock tele single coil at the bridge.

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Post subject: Re: push pull tone knob on tele
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:05 am
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MichiganRattler wrote:
correctemundo! No matter what my current dilemna is, that is the final result I want!
What I want; knob down= rail (neck pu) to switch to single mode and bridge single coil to function and toggle work in all three positions
knob up= rail in humbucker mode and toggle to work in all 3 positions
Again thanks, as a writer I tend to get too descriptive and sometimes give out way too much info. In hindsight I see where describing the current mode of operation is unneccessary and probably made it confusing, sorry. You are correct in your diagnosis of my desired results.
I have a S. Duncan humbucker rail at the neck and a stock tele single coil at the bridge.


Alrighty, then.

With your neck (Duncan) pickup, twist the red and white wires together and solder them to either one of the middle terminals on the switch part of the PPP. Now, with the PPP's shaft facing toward the floor, solder a wire to the uppermost terminal of the switch part of the PPP on the same side of the switch that you soldered the red and white wires to. Solder the other end of that wire to the can of the pot, in effect, grounding it.

Wire the rest of the guitar just like a stock Tele. Note that with the Duncan, typically, the black wire is your hot and the green is your ground. If upon you having wired the whole guitar up and you find that the Duncan is out of phase with the bridge pickup, simply reverse the black and green wires of the Duncan.

You're welcome, enjoy and if you have any more questions, just yell!

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Post subject: Re: push pull tone knob on tele
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:41 am
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the shaft end towards the floor...the shaft being the end the knurled knob sits on? Basically turning the unit upside down and solderng the extra wire to the bottom of the box with 6 terminals? It currently goes to the middle terminal on the opposite side the other wires are soldered to. That is my problem then, the end of the extra wire?
Sounds easy, thank you so much. I will wait for your confirmation to these questions, do the fix, try it out and let you know later today.

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Post subject: Re: push pull tone knob on tele
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:53 am
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MichiganRattler wrote:
the shaft end towards the floor...the shaft being the end the knurled knob sits on? Basically turning the unit upside down and solderng the extra wire to the bottom of the box with 6 terminals? It currently goes to the middle terminal on the opposite side the other wires are soldered to. That is my problem then, the end of the extra wire?
Sounds easy, thank you so much. I will wait for your confirmation to these questions, do the fix, try it out and let you know later today.


Yes regarding the shaft, no regarding the terminals.

As you look at the switch with the shaft facing downwards, you have two vertical rows of three terminals per side. Pick either the left OR right side and solder the red and white wires to the second (or middle) terminal. Again with the shaft facing the floor, solder an additional wire to the terminal directly above where you've soldered the red and white wires. This additional wire's other end gets soldered to the can of the pot.

Terminals with shaft facing towards floor:

0 0-Solder a wire to this terminal only and the other end of this wire to the can of the pot.

0 0-Solder red and white wire of the Duncan to this terminal only.

0 0

All other terminals are not used.

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Post subject: Re: push pull tone knob on tele
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:57 pm
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So where should the black and green wires go to? I also have a black wire from the toggle going to the ppknob. Right now the black and green wires are together soldered to the lower terminal.
After putting the red and white together on the middle terminal and a small wire to the terminal above the red and white and then to the bottom of the pot I get the same sounds with the knob up and down. But there are wires on terminals that don't belong (black and green from S. Duncan)

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Post subject: Re: push pull tone knob on tele
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:50 pm
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MichiganRattler wrote:
So where should the black and green wires go to? I also have a black wire from the toggle going to the ppknob. Right now the black and green wires are together soldered to the lower terminal.
After putting the red and white together on the middle terminal and a small wire to the terminal above the red and white and then to the bottom of the pot I get the same sounds with the knob up and down. But there are wires on terminals that don't belong (black and green from S. Duncan)


Remember what I said and illustrated about the switch part of the PPP. Only two terminals are used, one with that of the red and white wires of the Duncan and the one above it with one wire going to the can of the tone pot.

Onto the stock Tele wiring. Use this diagram:

www.millerguitar.com/images/wiring/tele_style.jpg

Disregard the "Optional..." inset at the top right of the diagram.

Now, notice in the diagram the white wire from the neck pickup. This will be your BLACK wire from the Duncan. Notice in the diagram the black wire from the neck pickup. This will be your GREEN wire from the Duncan. Wire everything else as shown.

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Post subject: Re: push pull tone knob on tele
Posted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:41 pm
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Wow, whoever wired this for me the first time added a lot of wires. I am going to try to illustrate what he had.
-----______________
( )__wire to bottom^
Green duncan ____( )___Red and white from Duncan
thru to toggle ( )_____Black Duncan through to volume pot
UUU
Parenthesis are terminals. He had the black and green switched and ran them through the push/pull terminals before their final destinations. I will now remove both the black wire and the green wire from the terminal and solder them to the correct spots according to the diagram.
This arrangement he had worked but only the middle and neck positions of the toggle had any volume, the bridge position was very very thin, with ppknob both up and down.
Yes I know what you told me about which terminals were used but I didn't want to remove what was there until I knew what to do with them. You certainly have been patient and helpful. Gonna do this fix right now.

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Post subject: Re: push pull tone knob on tele
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 6:58 am
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MichiganRattler wrote:
Wow, whoever wired this for me the first time added a lot of wires...You certainly have been patient and helpful. Gonna do this fix right now.


Evidently, whoever was just touching wires and terminals together until something worked and then soldered them together wherever this happened. Oftentimes with messes like this, it is easier to unwire everything and start over from scratch. This way, a lot of confusion is avoided and with the proper diagram(s), success will be achieved on the first go-round. Remember, "Slow and steady wins the race."

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Post subject: Re: push pull tone knob on tele
Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:18 am
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I dig! Did the wiring this morning, turkey day, and tried it out....SUCCESS! That humbucker is SO gutsy and that single coil at the neck is so tele clear, the definition of treble is a singlecoil on a tele and that is what I now have. My slide will now get that high, lonesome whine when it is needed! And if I want that growling engine churning burn that makes a song rumble down the track, I've got it! Thank you so much for straightening my mess out. I have 2 teles I take on every gig that I know I will use, all others are backups...Old Red and $@!&#! ($@!&#! is who we fixed) I keep $@!&#! tuned to open G and play a slide set with it but was restricted with some tonal choices missing, you have opened up my tonal world with your patience and knowledge. Thanks so much for sharing.
Happy Turkey Day and thanks again. :D

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