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Post subject: James Burton signature, confusion
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:59 am
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Hey there,
I'd like your help with my "Fender 1989 James Burton signature telecaster made in the U.S.A" in identifying it and confirming its details.
I am lacking confidence in my guitar as it states that the first line of production for James Burton signatures was in 1991. So this made me very confused as to why this was an 89'. I have taken some pictures of the guitar, and I have also disassembled the neck from the guitar and taken some pictures of the inside. The serial number reads: E 901***. The neck reads Hector Montes (I think, don't know, is the sign of a custom shop guitar) stamped in black ink on it with a piece of paper next to it with a signature (which I cannot make out for the life of me). The neck also has stamped on it "April 23 1990" in black ink.
The body where the neck attaches has a signature, which again I find hard to make out, along with the same date "April 23 1990" stamped in black ink, and a green stamp of "092690". All of this info can be seen on the pictures, I'm sorry if they're not very clear but I tried to compensate for that by providing the information.
I do additionally believe the guitar has been re-finished from a black paisley (standard finish, so I presumed it would be as there are minor chips in the paint and they are filled with black paint) into a bold red colour. The pickups are lace sensor and there are 3, so this also makes me believe it was the first addition of the James Burton series.
I bought this guitar from a shop believing it was a genuine signature, but of course these minor details have put me into a state of confusion. It not being clear on its origins has made it unsellable as I will not be able to value it.
If you could help me in any way I would be extremely grateful, and you'd be helping me enormously. If you also have any idea on how much this guitar would be valued at, that'd also help.

Cheers,
Ben


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Post subject: Re: James Burton signature, confusion
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:49 am
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Hey, do you like the guitar? So what to worry if it's 89 or 91? At least that's my point of view... but now let me answer the question: :)

I'm not familiar with the model, all I know is that currently there are 2 JB models: the black with red or blue Paisley-flames one with 3 pickups and the Candy Apple Red with 2 Texas Specials single coils. Both are made in Mexico if I'm not mistaken, and I don't know when they started being made (current specs under guitars don't show first year of production anymore). Maybe yours is a "3rd" James Burton Tele model that was discontinued (which I believe to be the original one). I remember seeing a black golden-paisley graphics 3 Lace Sensors James Burton Tele somewhere; not the same model as the current ones. Hard to know since yours was refinished. By the way, your guitar has 1990 stamps, correct? What makes you think it's an 1989? More likely yours was built in 1990 and put for sale in 1991, no?
The fact yours has someone's initials makes me think it's a MIA model, not Custom Shop.


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Post subject: Re: James Burton signature, confusion
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:55 am
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You may want to take a look here:
http://www.tdpri.com/forum/guitar-owner ... -club.html

Is yours like that red one? The black hardware might have been added later.


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Post subject: Re: James Burton signature, confusion
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:29 pm
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Okay - lots of things going on here:

1. Fender wound up using "SE9XXXXX" serial number decals for a number of years; I've seen these on SRV Strats which didn't come out until 1992; I've seen them on guitars with date stamps as late as 1993. Fender typically uses up a serial number series before moving on to the next series of decals; they don't throw way the unused ones on January 2nd of a given year.

2. I thought the Burton came out in 1990, not 1991; I'm trying to remember when I saw my first one. I moved in 1991; I know I saw one in the city I was living in prior to that move.

3. Original Burtons did of course have the 3 Lace Sensors - same configuration as the Strat Plus Deluxe (blue logo in the neck, silver logo in the middle, and red logo in the bridge).

4. I'm remembering the original colors as being black with gold paisley, black with blue paisley, black with red paisley (all the black/paisleys had gold hardware) and red with black paisley and black hardware. The red with black paisley were notorious for having the black paisley fleck off leaving just the red - like the one in the post on TDPRI.
EDIT: Sorry - these didn't have black paisley; they had dark metallic/mica chips in the paint instead of the usual silver or gold chips in the paint to give it that darker look.

I don't see any links to any photos; that would be helpful. However, it adds up to me.


Last edited by John C on Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: James Burton signature, confusion
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:04 pm
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Thank you for your replies :)

At the moment I think John C's post has near enough hit the nail on the head!
Here are some pics:
http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa14 ... C_0666.jpg
http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa14 ... C_0668.jpg
http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa14 ... C_0667.jpg
http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa14 ... C_0665.jpg
http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa14 ... C_0664.jpg


Hope that helps confirm things, thank you a lot for your replies so far its been a massive weight lifted off of my back knowing its origins. However I am somewhat skeptical about the black paisley just gradually fading off of the guitar as mine doesn't feel rough at all in anyway, it might of been re-lacquered, polished or something. Just it's a very smooth surface thats all..

Also it has very few chips and dings, and considering its 21 years old or so has anyone got an idea of what sort of money this should be valued at? Thanks so much so far :)


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Post subject: Re: James Burton signature, confusion
Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:33 pm
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Now that I've thought about it and tried (unsuccessfully) to locate some old catalogs I believe I was wrong about the red finish. It did not have a black paisley print on in; it was a unique red finish that had black pearl instead of the usual gold or silver in it - kind of like some Ibanez and Kramer finishes back in the day. That would explain the black flecks you're seeing (and why they chose black hardware instead of gold). The body doesn't appear to have been refinished based on the photos you've posted.

That's really in pretty good shape for a 21-year-old guitar. Current value - I couldn't really tell you; I know they were priced pretty close to the Clapton Strats back in the day. I haven't seen one of these since the 1990s.


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Post subject: Re: James Burton signature, confusion
Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:11 am
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The only thing I'd say is that there are minor chips in the red paint on the body, and underneath in some chips there looks to be black paint underneath...thats the main reason I was skeptical about a possible re-finish done on it.

Cheers again :)


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Post subject: Re: James Burton signature, confusion
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:39 pm
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Mrguitarist wrote:


So, not a refinish after all, one of the guys in that TDPRI link has one exactly like yours, congrats :)


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Post subject: Re: James Burton signature, confusion
Posted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 12:45 pm
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Ok brilliant, I didn't think of that :P
Yeah that's really good, thanks so much for everyone's replies. It's really helped, and now I know its not re-finished :D Cheers guys


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Post subject: Re: James Burton signature, confusion
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:04 am
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Iago wrote:
Both are made in Mexico


The James Burton Standard is made in Mexico. The regular Artist Series versions (the old and the new) are American-made.


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Post subject: Re: James Burton signature, confusion
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:43 am
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I just looked at my Fender Telecaster book and heres what I've found.

The first sig model for Fender was the Eric Clapton although James Burton and Fender discussed this when he visited the factory back in 81 for the re-issue of the '52. Fast foward to 88 when the first protypes were made but it wasn't official until 90 at Namm.

They released four finishes.

Black with Gold Paisley and Gold hardware
Black with Candy Apple Red Paisley Chromed Hardware
Pearl White with Gold Hardware no Paisley Graphic
Frost Red with Black Hardware no Paisley Graphic

Just a few questions

Did they advertise the guitar as a 89 and how did they get it? This alone makes me think there is something fishy with the place where you got it.


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Post subject: Re: James Burton signature, confusion
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:49 am
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Drunkinminer wrote:
I just looked at my Fender Telecaster book and heres what I've found.

The first sig model for Fender was the Eric Clapton although James Burton and Fender discussed this when he visited the factory back in 81 for the re-issue of the '52. Fast foward to 88 when the first protypes were made but it wasn't official until 90 at Namm.

They released four finishes.

Black with Gold Paisley and Gold hardware
Black with Candy Apple Red Paisley Chromed Hardware
Pearl White with Gold Hardware no Paisley Graphic
Frost Red with Black Hardware no Paisley Graphic

Just a few questions

Did they advertise the guitar as a 89 and how did they get it? This alone makes me think there is something fishy with the place where you got it.


Fender used the "SE9XXXXXX" serial number decals on all the early Artist Signature models from the time the Clapton and Malmsteen first came out until they used them up sometime around 1992 or 1993. You will also find SRV Signature Strats (which didn't come out until Jimmie Vaughn and the family approved it in 1992) with SE9XXXXXX serial numbers.

Because the number includes an "E9", some people just assume they are 1989 guitars and don't remove the neck to check for date stamps.


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Post subject: Re: James Burton signature, confusion
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:00 pm
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Mrguitarist wrote:
Thank you for your replies :)

At the moment I think John C's post has near enough hit the nail on the head!
Here are some pics:
http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa14 ... C_0666.jpg
http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa14 ... C_0668.jpg
http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa14 ... C_0667.jpg
http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa14 ... C_0665.jpg
http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa14 ... C_0664.jpg


Hope that helps confirm things, thank you a lot for your replies so far its been a massive weight lifted off of my back knowing its origins. However I am somewhat skeptical about the black paisley just gradually fading off of the guitar as mine doesn't feel rough at all in anyway, it might of been re-lacquered, polished or something. Just it's a very smooth surface thats all..

Also it has very few chips and dings, and considering its 21 years old or so has anyone got an idea of what sort of money this should be valued at? Thanks so much so far :)


It seems that you forgot using the IMG tags:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


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