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Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:18 pm
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I don't think that the wood plays a huge role in how the guitar will sound, but I do think that it can affect the resonance and overall character of the guitar's tone. Certainly not as much for an electric as for an acoustic, but I do think there's a bit of difference.

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Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:07 pm
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TimDrakeMusic wrote:
I don't think that the wood plays a huge role in how the guitar will sound, but I do think that it can affect the resonance and overall character of the guitar's tone. Certainly not as much for an electric as for an acoustic, but I do think there's a bit of difference.


I would agree. Along with pups and amp.


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Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 5:50 pm
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I know it's taboo to bring up Gibson here, but I read that when Les Paul was coming into his own as a musician, he would experiment w/ the different tones wood would produce and solid-body versus chambered body versus semi-hollow (and even a huge 4x4 running through the guitar) and so on...but that was back when electrics were just gaining popularity ( and of course Leo Fender was rockn it with THE original electric:) ).
Nowadays, with the amount of knowledge people gained over the years about developing electric guitars, I believe the most important thing to a guitars sound will be its electronics. While there is a slight difference between maybe resonance and sustain, the SOUND of a guitar will more than likely be determined by its pups. Some people will ask, "What do you think about throwing EMGs or Hotrails on my Tele?" And the majority reply, "They're great, but you really only get one tone out of them and they're for metal." No one ever asks, "Well what wood is the guitar?"

Just my opinion :)


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Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 6:05 pm
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Nevin1985 wrote:
Do you hear that?

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The sustain?


"No...I...uh...don't hear anything"

"Well you would though, if it was playing."

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Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 11:23 pm
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Have you people ever played a guitar with a maple body? Play one next to an LP with the same pickups, and then tell me body wood doesnt effect tone.


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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:02 am
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JohnZ6 wrote:
Have you people ever played a guitar with a maple body? Play one next to an LP with the same pickups, and then tell me body wood doesnt effect tone.


My thought exactly. If you would ever try an ES-335 type guitar that is constructed around a maple neck and block, and compare it to a mahogany one - you'll notice the difference pretty quickly - and I don't think it's because of the hollow part. You can probably dig out more examples - but this is my main experience with the same design that uses different woods (well maybe besides ash vs alder Strats).

Now, maple is considered to be bright and mahogany is considered to be much warmer - but there's a difference, which is all one has to prove for the sake of this debate. Ash isn't really much different than alder, IMO - so you'll hear less difference.


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Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 12:42 pm
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Send me the guitars so I can try. :wink:

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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:44 am
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tyronne wrote:
Nevin1985 wrote:
I do not think anyone would argue the fact that wood is important for tone in an acoustic guitar... correct?

So why would it be so crazy to say that wood plays an important role for tone in an electric guitar when both forms of guitar work on the same principle, amplifying the string vibrations.

The wood is the link.

While of course the electronics are important, no two bodies will sustain the same. If the string cannot vibrate the pickup cannot... pickup. So thus wood is important. Yeah you could have a metal guitar. You could also have one made out of Jello.

Only orange jello.



But I think that was the crux of the discussion on another Forum Topic Nevin. That acoustic guitars depend on the wood to amplify the sound. Whereas, with electric guitars, the strings vibrations are picked up "magnetically" via the pickups, which then are passed onto the amplifier to reproduce the sound. And so, the wood adds little if anything.
...

I like green jello lately... :wink:
-T


You're conflating volume with harmonic tonality. Yes, an acoustic guitar amplifies sound differently than an electric. But we're not talking about amplification, we're talking about harmonic tonality. That is, in what manner the string sustains its particular vibrational pattern, rather than the design by which the vibrations are amplified by soundhole/speaker.

The densities of woods will cause them to absorb certain frequencies or harmonics differently, and transfer those vibrations back to the string in a different fashion. Other things affect the tone of a guitar... the bridge, nut, and neck joint are notable parts of overall design which change the way the guitar resonates -- maybe minimally, maybe not.

The composition of wood absolutely affects the tone of a guitar, electric or acoustic. I don't know how anyone would come to the conclusion that it doesn't. You may or may not hear the difference if your style is a heavier one, using lots of distortion. I grew up playing thrash and didn't start caring about the composition of my guitars until I started playing country and jazz. And of course, tone starts in the fingers, then the strings, and that's the most important part of making music.


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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:39 am
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Ok the next logical part of this discussion.

If wood is affecting the string, how does it not cause a distortion of the note, by altering the oscilating pattern of the note? Similar to setting your pickups to high.



Theres only one way to prove that body wood does affect tone. Take alder body, play a chord, make sure the strings are hit with a specific amount of pressure and that the guitar is setup to a specific set of dimensions.
Measure the soundwave on some kind of spectragraph.

Then take everything off that alder body, including the neck. Put it all on your substitute body. Set it up to the same dimensions, hit the strings with the same force. Measure the sound..... compare the two.


Anybody does that and shows me the results, I'll happily admit I'm wrong.

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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:31 am
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hijinx1980 wrote:
tyronne wrote:
Nevin1985 wrote:
I do not think anyone would argue the fact that wood is important for tone in an acoustic guitar... correct?

So why would it be so crazy to say that wood plays an important role for tone in an electric guitar when both forms of guitar work on the same principle, amplifying the string vibrations.

The wood is the link.

While of course the electronics are important, no two bodies will sustain the same. If the string cannot vibrate the pickup cannot... pickup. So thus wood is important. Yeah you could have a metal guitar. You could also have one made out of Jello.

Only orange jello.



But I think that was the crux of the discussion on another Forum Topic Nevin. That acoustic guitars depend on the wood to amplify the sound. Whereas, with electric guitars, the strings vibrations are picked up "magnetically" via the pickups, which then are passed onto the amplifier to reproduce the sound. And so, the wood adds little if anything.
...

I like green jello lately... :wink:
-T


You're conflating volume with harmonic tonality. Yes, an acoustic guitar amplifies sound differently than an electric. But we're not talking about amplification, we're talking about harmonic tonality. That is, in what manner the string sustains its particular vibrational pattern, rather than the design by which the vibrations are amplified by soundhole/speaker.

The densities of woods will cause them to absorb certain frequencies or harmonics differently, and transfer those vibrations back to the string in a different fashion. Other things affect the tone of a guitar... the bridge, nut, and neck joint are notable parts of overall design which change the way the guitar resonates -- maybe minimally, maybe not.

The composition of wood absolutely affects the tone of a guitar, electric or acoustic. I don't know how anyone would come to the conclusion that it doesn't. You may or may not hear the difference if your style is a heavier one, using lots of distortion. I grew up playing thrash and didn't start caring about the composition of my guitars until I started playing country and jazz. And of course, tone starts in the fingers, then the strings, and that's the most important part of making music.


How does wood, first absorb certain frequencies and then transfer them back with enough energy to impact the vibration of the strings?

-T

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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 10:00 am
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Here's my explanation.
Speed of sound=340.29 m / s When you pick, strum, or bash in a string, the energy is not just transferred in the string itself, it is transferred to and through the wood via the nut and bridge. Several thousand times. Why if you have part of the body resting against you you'll feel the vibrations.

Strings in general are like the old cup phone experiment. You know what I'm talking about, 2 empty cans or cups suspended by a string, you talk into them, they're a whole lot of fun. When done properly , the string serves as a medium for carrying the sound frequencies. On the electric guitar, the string is replaced with a nickel wound piece of steel. It is attached to to two solid pieces of wood via the nut and bridge. The pickup in simple form is simply a magnet which picks up the frequency that the string is vibrating at. Now the question is does the type of wood affect the frequency of the string?

Well, since the energy of the string is transferred through the body and neck several thousand times, one can correctly assume the frequency of those waves will change based on the medium it is passed through. Woods exhibit mild variation in tone because they have different cellular structures and densities altering the speed and direction of the sound waves as they fly through. As someone mentioned before, these differences vary in degree, maple and mahogany differ way more than do ash and alder.

Now, to prove my point: Let's imagine a strat made out of graphite. Compare it to a normal stratocaster made out of alder. Same hardware and amplification. If body wood does not affect tone or if it does it does so marginally, there should be very little tonal variation. I wish I could prove it better, but frankly I don't have the money to buy an all graphite stratocaster from the custom shop. I'd call it "Blackie 3000" or something along those lines.

As to why wood doesn't distort a note: Well, distortion is the result of the clipping of a sound wave. Wood does not clip the sound waves, the waves direction is altered due to gaps in the wood (wood is porous...) among other things. Changing direction=reduced speed (Instead of 340 m/s it's like 330 or some other crazy high number). Reduced speed equals change in frequency, amplitude and other sound characteristics.

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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:04 pm
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This has reached a point of ridiculousness. If it sounds different to ones ears, than it is. If it doesn't, than it isn't. Does it really matter if you can prove it with science or not?

I'm in the camp that it probably does, but how much may be negligiable. But may be alot. Each tree that is chopped down is met with different environments that affect the way they grow. Just like people, there are no two trees that are EXACTLY the same. Therefore their densities are going to vary and what not. It will cause it to be different. I don't see how you can take that out of the equation.

Now is it enough to notice? That's up to the end user. I'm sure you could argue the varying applications of paint will vary the sound. But again, how much?

Why is the sky blue? Why do my kids say stupid things? Etc etc etc.... :lol:


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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:34 pm
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Yeah. Science is awesome. Without science we would have no electric guitars or amplification/fx. Nothing wrong with trying to get a better understanding of the instrument is the way I look at it, long as I don't dwell on it so long I forget to play it (which is what I'm doing now >_>). As for why the sky is blue, that's due to Rayleigh scattering. Why do your kids say stupid things? Because stupid things are fun to say. Don't need science to prove that one. :P

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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:50 pm
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I always thought Muddy Waters invented electricity.


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Posted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:42 pm
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Nah, but Muddy should be credited for inventing the process of turning electricity into something useful for society ^^ Screw Edison and the light bulb, blues was way more significant :P

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