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Post subject: Ash body tone...
Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:50 am
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So...Here's my crazy thought; questions will follow.
I have been thinking about buying a new Tele sometime in the coming year, until last night I had my heart set on picking up a new Am. Std.
My new thought is this: Instead of buying a new guitar, I'm thinking I'll just buy another body and all the parts that I feel are a little substandard on my '09 Blackout Tele (bridge - chrome is already begining to lift around all the screws --- Tuners - nothing worng with the Fender tuners but I'd prefer locking tuners --- Bridge pickup - JB jr. or Pearly gates sc sized humbucker) I plan to reuse the neck from the Blackout as well as the electronics. I figured for less than the cost of another new guitar I could instead just build myself my dream guitar and not have to compromise on this feature or that because I don't know of many Tele models that have all the features I would like.
I love the three pickup setup on the blackout, but would love a humbucker in the bridge position for some heavier sounds.
Also I am tiring of the black finish on this and 4 of my other guitars and would love to have a figured maple top with a nice transparent burst finish on the Tele.
So my question is this,

I know that ash is a lightweight wood, will that make my tone darker or brighter than with a heavier alder body?

I'm also thinking on mahogany, but I've already got 2 guitars with mahogany bodies and I get tired of performing with a guitar that weighs as much as a car strapped over my shoulders...lol.

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Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:04 am
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the body has absolutely zero affect on the tone of the guitar, it's an electric guitar not an acoustic. you will find people who claim voodoo magic and mojo of certain woods, but it's all b.s. with absolutely zero evidence to back it up with.

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Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:56 am
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And just because it's Ash, it doesn't mean it will be light. Ash can be very heavy too. My Ash Tele is much heavier than my Strat.

-T

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Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:33 am
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Nevin

Before the rolling eyes, prove him wrong mate :wink:

I agree with Ryan and also Tyrone too. My ash Baja Tele is heavier than any LP javascript:emoticon(':wink:')I've lifted.

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Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:10 pm
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While I do believe that wood has an influence on tone I don't think it is big enough and variation within woods might be great than variation between woods.

Ash varies in weight, a lot. Some of the lightest and heaviest guitars I have played were made of ash... so there's no telling.

I do believe that your tone will change, the "experts" say that you'll have a more scooped tone, probably a little brighter... but really, I suspect that you will hardly feel any difference and if you actually would feel it, it might not be what you've expected.


Anyway, I don't like the guessing game and prefer to try before I buy. I do replace pickups sometimes, but it's more predictable and has a much bigger effect on tone than replacing the body.


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Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:23 am
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So basically the only improvment from this would be the look, which still I think it'd be pretty sweet to get a nice body with a quilted top, so who knows? Just a thought anyway, thanks for the replies.

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Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:26 am
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The argument over woods seems to never get proven and comes up quite often around here but I also agree that, its the electronics in them, and there's the hands that play them, and twiddle with them knobs, that produces the Tone!

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Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:48 am
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Hey Tim, why not check out a nice piece of Swamp Ash. Should be a tad lighter. :)

Also, if you don't like the tone, try out some different PUs... Their impact is much higher than that of the body wood.

Cheers!

-Nutter

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Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 10:09 am
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The Blackout is a super guitar as is, but I would change the pups first and then maybe the capacitors, but leave the rest as is.

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Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:41 am
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Its all about the wood .


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Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:50 pm
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Tonewood absolutely makes a difference. It's not something you can prove. A person may not have an ear that is sufficiently developed to hear the difference between woods. It's the same as ear training. Some folks can identify a middle C just by hearing it played. Others can identify the quality of a chord and the chord progressions by ear. Some folks are just plain tone deaf.

This same topic came up a few months ago and I posted this reply:

Quote:
Nevin1985. Couldn't agree with you more. Mike Eldred agrees. He talks about tonewood versus pickups and electronics at the 3:00 minute mark in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTi8ISIxX8c


I also think the quality of the tonewood matters. When you buy a more expensive model you are getting a better selection of wood. At least that is how I self justify my purchases Richard Hoover from Santa Cruz guitars put on a clinic and talked about how important wood selection is to the tone of a guitar. Not only the type of wood but the selection of the piece of wood. The age of the wood was very important to him. Something to do with the sap crystallizing over time.

But at the end of the day it's all about your chops


This is just my opinion, but your technique and ear are just as important as the quality of the instrument. A friend of mine, who is an accomplished Jazz musician, normally plays a Gibson Super V. He recently bought a Squier thinline tele and Peavy amp. The tone he gets from $300 of equipment is better than I can ever hope to achieve with my gear. He still sounds better playing his Super V :wink:


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Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:40 am
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BlackCatBone wrote:
The Blackout is a super guitar as is, but I would change the pups first and then maybe the capacitors, but leave the rest as is.


It definitely is an awesome guitar. especially the neck and the versatilitly of the 3 pickups. I just really find myself tiring of all the black guitars and a custom guitar would be a cool thing to have in my stable. So yeah, 2011 will bring some changes.
Also, having an extra alder tele body laying around will "inspire" me to start another project...but that's a while away. :wink:

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Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:51 am
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beckologist wrote:
Tonewood absolutely makes a difference. It's not something you can prove. A person may not have an ear that is sufficiently developed to hear the difference between woods. It's the same as ear training. Some folks can identify a middle C just by hearing it played. Others can identify the quality of a chord and the chord progressions by ear. Some folks are just plain tone deaf.

This same topic came up a few months ago and I posted this reply:

Quote:
Nevin1985. Couldn't agree with you more. Mike Eldred agrees. He talks about tonewood versus pickups and electronics at the 3:00 minute mark in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTi8ISIxX8c


I also think the quality of the tonewood matters. When you buy a more expensive model you are getting a better selection of wood. At least that is how I self justify my purchases Richard Hoover from Santa Cruz guitars put on a clinic and talked about how important wood selection is to the tone of a guitar. Not only the type of wood but the selection of the piece of wood. The age of the wood was very important to him. Something to do with the sap crystallizing over time.

But at the end of the day it's all about your chops


This is just my opinion, but your technique and ear are just as important as the quality of the instrument. A friend of mine, who is an accomplished Jazz musician, normally plays a Gibson Super V. He recently bought a Squier thinline tele and Peavy amp. The tone he gets from $300 of equipment is better than I can ever hope to achieve with my gear. He still sounds better playing his Super V :wink:


I think that we are looking for is "proof" that wood matters in electric guitars. In acoustic guitars it does and Santa Cruz guitars are acoustic, lat time I checked.

Been lots of debate but at the end of the day, the electronics come out as deciding the tone.

-T

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Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:22 am
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Nevin1985 wrote:
You could also have one made out of Jello.

Only orange jello.


I prefer the tone of Cherry Jello.


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Posted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:07 am
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Nevin1985 wrote:
I do not think anyone would argue the fact that wood is important for tone in an acoustic guitar... correct?

So why would it be so crazy to say that wood plays an important role for tone in an electric guitar when both forms of guitar work on the same principle, amplifying the string vibrations.

The wood is the link.

While of course the electronics are important, no two bodies will sustain the same. If the string cannot vibrate the pickup cannot... pickup. So thus wood is important. Yeah you could have a metal guitar. You could also have one made out of Jello.

Only orange jello.



But I think that was the crux of the discussion on another Forum Topic Nevin. That acoustic guitars depend on the wood to amplify the sound. Whereas, with electric guitars, the strings vibrations are picked up "magnetically" via the pickups, which then are passed onto the amplifier to reproduce the sound. And so, the wood adds little if anything.
Wish I could remember the topic as it generated a lot of discussion...

I like green jello lately... :wink:
-T

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