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Post subject: For those of you who own a tele with a humbucker or two...
Posted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:21 pm
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Do you find that the humbuckers seem to make the sound a little more bassy? I'm in the market for a guitar, I like any of the 72 RI's or even a standard with a thin humbucker would be in my sights, IF it seems to help round them out. I find them to be kind of a little TOO twangy for my tastes and I'm looking for something a fuller sounding.


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Post subject: Re: For those of you who own a tele with a humbucker or two.
Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:41 pm
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ABPOS wrote:
Do you find that the humbuckers seem to make the sound a little more bassy? I'm in the market for a guitar, I like any of the 72 RI's or even a standard with a thin humbucker would be in my sights, IF it seems to help round them out. I find them to be kind of a little TOO twangy for my tastes and I'm looking for something a fuller sounding.


A full sized humbucker will inevitably solve your problem in that area.

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Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:49 pm
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Take a look at a 52 Hot Rod, it has a mini humbucker in the neck and it is a lot less twangy in positions two and three. I can get some very mellow sounds from mine when I want to, plus it "dirtys up" very well. But with the bridge pickup I can definitly get all the twang a man could need.


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Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:10 pm
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Thanks guys! I didn't know about the hot rod. I am really interested in the black top series. Even in the strat. I think I like the tele better, but I need to play both through some amps. There is a store near me that has some.


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Post subject: Re: For those of you who own a tele with a humbucker or two.
Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:04 pm
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ABPOS wrote:
Do you find that the humbuckers seem to make the sound a little more bassy? I'm in the market for a guitar, I like any of the 72 RI's or even a standard with a thin humbucker would be in my sights, IF it seems to help round them out. I find them to be kind of a little TOO twangy for my tastes and I'm looking for something a fuller sounding.

Any of the MIM Classic Series 1972 Reissues will get you where you want to go tone wise. The Custom has a neck humbucker and a traditional single coil at the bridge while the Deluxe and the Thinline have two humbuckers.

I owned a '72 Deluxe Reissue, liked it but ended up trading it for an American Standard Tele. The '72 Thinline Reissue is the keeper for me. It's light, sounds good clean and handles overdrive and distortion well. It has a thicker and mellower tone than a taditional Tele.

John


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Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:51 pm
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You can judge for yourself if you promise not to critique my playing too harshly. This is what my twin-humbucker Tele Deluxe sounds like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3Mc0qWL16Q

8)

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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 9:12 am
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The '72 Classic Series reissued Wide Range Hums sound good and unique in their own right. They have a really thick, glassy tone. It's a distinctly Fender-sounding humbucker, even though the new WRHBs no longer use Cunife in their construction.

Additonally, in no way do these sound like a Gibson humbucker. Actually, the WRHBs have a little more clarity versus a Gibson 'bucker, especially if you upgrade the pots from the stock 250k ones to 500k or 1 meg ones.

So far, I've found that my '72 Deluxe is suitable for everything, and I really do mean everything. Blues? Yep. Classic Rock? Yep. Hard Rock? Yep. Even metal, such as Thrash, isn't off limits with this guitar. It's also good for Country licks, if you're in the mood to do that. Highly versatile. These Teles are horribly underrated and for what good reason, I don't know.

I also have to say my '72 was an absolute steal. I walked out of the door with mine for $480 brand-spankin' new. By far the best Mexican-made guitar I've picked up and owned. The quality really can give quite a few American guitars a run for their money. For example, the neck on my '72 has the most absolute insane flame to its neck for a Mexican guitar; if you shift the position of the neck in the light, the flame will actually dance around. I've picked up few American guitars with this degree of natural flame on the neck wood.

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Post subject:
Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:48 am
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$480 BUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's crazy talk. The last place I went, they wanted $ 660 or brand new.

And the one I played I was kind of like, it was OK. I remember playing a geniune one back 100 years ago and I was in love. I'd have to find the exact right one, and now that you told me how much you paid, I'm not sure I want to pay $660 for one. LOL. I'm not really sure I like the frets they put on there. I know, I know, the medium jumbos are what they put on most of their models, but I like mine LOW. And for some reason they just felt a little higher on that last 72 I played. Maybe I need a used one, a little wore in. Or something.

Good job Russian!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Looks good too!

Where were you guys when I first got here. When I started snooping around on these forums, I made a few comments about possibly wanting a strat with two humbuckers and most people, besides a few, descended on my like I was crazy. Not just on this site, but other also. Maybe that's just the case for the strat, but from what I've heard on youtube and what I've played, the tele seems like it is GTG with buckers. I REALLY would like the black dove one. I guess those are technically humbuckers, but I'm a fan of how I've heard that one sound.

Thanks for your input guys, it helps me. I've pretty much narrowed down my search for guitars to a tele with buckers or an SG. I think the tele might be a little easier on the wallet, but there's a lot I like aobut the SG too. I would have to debate if I want to go epiphone or not though. So.... Even though I've narrowed it down, I still have to find the right deal. hehehehe The never ending quiest, eh?


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Post subject:
Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:04 pm
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ABPOS wrote:
$480 BUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's crazy talk. The last place I went, they wanted $ 660 or brand new.


That's actually still not bad. The original MSRP on my '72 Deluxe was $699. I managed to snap mine up while it was still marked down after a Labor Day sale.

I originally set out to buy a Blacktop Series Jazzmaster. I tracked one down at a local shop, tried it out, and realized I didn't want to shell out $450 for one brand new. I'll just wait for a used one to pop up on Craigslist.

Quote:
And the one I played I was kind of like, it was OK. I remember playing a geniune one back 100 years ago and I was in love. I'd have to find the exact right one, and now that you told me how much you paid, I'm not sure I want to pay $660 for one. LOL.


The reissues do sound a bit different from the originals and that's due to two factors. One, there new WRHBs no longer use Cunife pole pieces. The new WRHBs have thicker, narrower bobbins, Alnico bar magnets, slightly less windings, and non-magnetic pole pieces versus the originals. Still close in sound, but not exactly dead-on. Two, the reissues have a bit more body wood because all '70s Teles had what's referred to as a "notchless" shape with a less defined upper bout because of differences in how the bodies were cut out, thus making that area of the body a bit short.

You just have to find the right one. I actually picked up an original '74 Deluxe at a guitar shop in TN while on vacation once and the one I bought is fairly close in terms of tone to the original I played. I might also add that the shop that had my Deluxe also had a non FSR model in Walnut (still selling at the original MSRP too) that sounded absolutely nothing like mine or the '74 I tried out.

Quote:
I'm not really sure I like the frets they put on there. I know, I know, the medium jumbos are what they put on most of their models, but I like mine LOW. And for some reason they just felt a little higher on that last 72 I played. Maybe I need a used one, a little wore in. Or something.


I used to be a strict vintage fret wire guy myself and, honestly, the M-Js don't bother me much any more. The first time I tried out M-Js and Jumbos, I hated them.

Another thing that may take some getting used to if you're a strictly Fender kind of guy is the 12" fretboard radius, although it really makes the guitar more solo and bend friendly.

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Good job Russian!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Looks good too!


Olympic White looks great ... but I think Shoreline Gold looks awesome. No, I'm not biased at all. :P :wink:

Quote:
Where were you guys when I first got here.


I was probably here, but still playing only single-coil guitars. :lol:

Okay, I still love my '67 RI, but I no longer pledge allegiance to either pickup. I am currently on a humbucker kick at the moment.

Quote:
When I started snooping around on these forums, I made a few comments about possibly wanting a strat with two humbuckers and most people, besides a few, descended on my like I was crazy. Not just on this site, but other also.


I don't think you're crazy.

I actually want to build a Shoreline Gold Partscaster Strat with two WRHBs, large '70s headstock, and a Kahler locking tremolo after I sort my Superhawk out (I'm trying to build a mash-up guitar basically).

Quote:
Maybe that's just the case for the strat, but from what I've heard on youtube and what I've played, the tele seems like it is GTG with buckers. I REALLY would like the black dove one. I guess those are technically humbuckers, but I'm a fan of how I've heard that one sound.


Well, P-90s are really fat single coils, basically, and sound exactly like that: a really fat single coil. You could technically call Jazzmaster pups a variation on that theme. Gibson originally designed those and used them on the first few years of the original Gold Top Les Paul.

Quote:
Thanks for your input guys, it helps me. I've pretty much narrowed down my search for guitars to a tele with buckers or an SG. I think the tele might be a little easier on the wallet, but there's a lot I like aobut the SG too. I would have to debate if I want to go epiphone or not though. So.... Even though I've narrowed it down, I still have to find the right deal. hehehehe The never ending quiest, eh?


I had an Epiphone G-400 SG. It was a nice guitar, but the inherently weak neck joint allowed the guitar to go flat pretty easily. It was lightweight, though, so it's easy on your shoulders and back. I was fairly indifferent to the stock pickups, I always thought they could stand an upgrade to a set of Burstbucker Pros. Honestly, if you're going to go the SG route, buy a used Gibson SG faded, not the Epi. The price is typically about $100 apart.

But if you really want a Tele Deluxe, then that's where my vote is ultimately going to go. Buy what you really want the first time so you don't get stuck with some gear you'll want to unload a month after you buy it. :wink:

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Post subject:
Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 6:08 pm
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You know what is strange is that I asked about frets earlier on when I first joined here. And someone sent me a link showing all the different sizes of frets and their dimensions, and it showed the medium Jumbo being the smallest. Well, flattest I should say. Lowest profile. But I know I have played some fenders with smaller and I think the Vintage were it. But I swear I looked at the link 100 times and it made out like the vintage were just smaller in width, but taller. When I saw the two blacktop models at the Guitar store I was at (cream city guitars), I was pretty sure I remember the Blacktop strat having super small profile frets. I don't know what's going on, and what the truth is, but I know there are some smaller than medium jumbo and like you inferred, I guess are the vintage.

To be honest, I don't think I'd like the 12" radius. I'm a rhythm guitarist at this point and don't do much soloing. Doesn't mean I never will, but I think I like the flatter. As long as it's not super flat.

I think your build idea is awesome. I sometimes wonder if I shouldn't do that, since I know what I want, but I'm afraid it wouldn't turn out.

Thanks for the tips on the SG, I'll keep it in mind. I don't know what exactly I'm going to do yet, as I'm waiting for the right deal and the right opportunity. But I've been rigorously trying to pair down which models I'm open to, given my criteria. And the two mentioned fit my criteria the best. It would be really interesting to find an actual old 70's made deluxe. Like I said, I REALLY liked the one I played. But it was about 15 years ago and didn't have the money at the time. And couldn't justify it when I had a Standard Tele, and Bullet. I should've never got rid of that bullet. I put good single coil sized humbuckers in it and it sounded pretty good.


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Post subject:
Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:05 pm
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ABPOS wrote:
You know what is strange is that I asked about frets earlier on when I first joined here. And someone sent me a link showing all the different sizes of frets and their dimensions, and it showed the medium Jumbo being the smallest. Well, flattest I should say. Lowest profile. But I know I have played some fenders with smaller and I think the Vintage were it. But I swear I looked at the link 100 times and it made out like the vintage were just smaller in width, but taller. When I saw the two blacktop models at the Guitar store I was at (cream city guitars), I was pretty sure I remember the Blacktop strat having super small profile frets. I don't know what's going on, and what the truth is, but I know there are some smaller than medium jumbo and like you inferred, I guess are the vintage.


Indeed, vintage fret wire is small and thin. What it really comes down to is what you think feels best. I know Gibson guitars generally have Jumbo and occasionally Medium-Jumbo fret wire. Vintage is mostly a Fender thing.

Quote:
To be honest, I don't think I'd like the 12" radius. I'm a rhythm guitarist at this point and don't do much soloing. Doesn't mean I never will, but I think I like the flatter. As long as it's not super flat.


Well a 12" radius fretboard is actually one of the flattest radii out there. Gibson primarily prefers and still does prefer to use a 12" radius on their products, so the SG you're considering actually has the same exact fretboard radius as the '72 Deluxe.

The traditional Fender radius of 7.5" is actually one of the roundest radii you'll find on a guitar.

I seriously got into soloing and lead guitar just a few months ago. I've been playing guitar for almost 9 years now and I've mostly been a rhythm player. I find I can use both radii effectively, although it is true 7.5" radius will tend to choke out bends one and a half steps up and above.

Either fretboard radius is suitable for chords and rhythm playing.

Now, Fender's newer 9.5" radius is meant to be the middle ground, flat enough to be bend-friendly and curved enough to retain a traditional Fender-feel, but I'm drawing a blank as to which HH guitars feature this radius in the price range you're looking in. I think the Classic Player Black Dove '72 Deluxe you liked might have it, but I'm not sure.

Quote:
I think your build idea is awesome. I sometimes wonder if I shouldn't do that, since I know what I want, but I'm afraid it wouldn't turn out.


Well, it's not too hard to build a Partscaster. You basically order parts online or pick, choose from existing parts on eBay, or both depending on your budget.

For my build, I would be ordering a body through Warmoth without any traditional tremolo routing since the Kahler model 2300 that I prefer is a floating tremolo that mounts directly to the top of the guitar and does not depend on a sustain block and claw system like a traditional Strat or Floyd Rose tremolo does (the Kahler 2300 operates on a integral rotating cam-central system). Less routing does equal more tone and resonance, which is one reason why I prefer them. I may not even have to order a Warmoth body as I think these bodies are readily available to buy on eBay, as are the other parts I want for this build. It's possible to build my dream Partscaster on a budget of $500 or less.

I've dismantled plenty of Fender electric guitars and really studied their construction and how the electronics are wired. It's actually all fairly simple. A Fender Partscaster really is the simplest guitar to build because the parts are so easily interchangeable and easily assembled.

Food for thought, the original, highly-sought after Fender guitars were actually built by unskilled labor versus the skill that goes into making the Fenders of today. :wink:

Quote:
Thanks for the tips on the SG, I'll keep it in mind. I don't know what exactly I'm going to do yet, as I'm waiting for the right deal and the right opportunity. But I've been rigorously trying to pair down which models I'm open to, given my criteria. And the two mentioned fit my criteria the best. It would be really interesting to find an actual old 70's made deluxe. Like I said, I REALLY liked the one I played. But it was about 15 years ago and didn't have the money at the time. And couldn't justify it when I had a Standard Tele, and Bullet. I should've never got rid of that bullet. I put good single coil sized humbuckers in it and it sounded pretty good.


Well, if you're ever in KY, stop by at Willcutt's Richmond location. They have an early '80s MIJ Bullet for $225. Actually, come to think of it, Jamie (the guy who runs that location) might actually be able to ship it to you.

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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:33 pm
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I had the radii backwards, oops. The smaller means more rounded. Got it now.

I've played guitar for 20 years. But the first ten were extensive and the next, were barely ever. Little bits here and there. And then I have become rabid again this summer. My focus is to master all the chords. Including the weird ones. Gmsus7, Dm7, etc etc, whatever the hymns at my church can throw at me. My focus is to be downright good at fingering them quickly. Those changes can come quick in some of those songs and I want to do it right, instead of faking it. You know what I mean?

Gibby's may use medium jumbo or jumbo, but they always FEEL smaller to me. I'm not sure why yet. I'll have to figure that out. Either it's in my head, or there is something there.

My worry about building my own is I might get some kind of junky part, out of inexperience. Now if you buy everything from warmoth, I don't see how you can do it as cost effective as the factory.

Thanks for conversing with me about this stuff. It's fun and educational. "It's Educational!".


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Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:58 pm
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ABPOS wrote:
I had the radii backwards, oops. The smaller means more rounded. Got it now.


Ha, don't sweat it. It sort of works against common sense.

Quote:
I've played guitar for 20 years. But the first ten were extensive and the next, were barely ever. Little bits here and there. And then I have become rabid again this summer. My focus is to master all the chords. Including the weird ones. Gmsus7, Dm7, etc etc, whatever the hymns at my church can throw at me. My focus is to be downright good at fingering them quickly. Those changes can come quick in some of those songs and I want to do it right, instead of faking it. You know what I mean?


Definitely. Your approach to rhythm now is my approach to lead at the moment. You have to want to do it right.

Quote:
Gibby's may use medium jumbo or jumbo, but they always FEEL smaller to me. I'm not sure why yet. I'll have to figure that out. Either it's in my head, or there is something there.


I'm the opposite. Gibby fret wire has always felt quite tall and thick to me.

Quote:
My worry about building my own is I might get some kind of junky part, out of inexperience. Now if you buy everything from warmoth, I don't see how you can do it as cost effective as the factory.


Well you typically want to avoid buying brands that you know have made junk parts obviously. Familiarize yourself with the brands you know and want to buy. Take pickups, for example. Say you want to buy a Seymour Duncan SH on FleaBay. You'll want to visually confirm that what the seller is selling is in fact a Seymour SH. You'll also want to read in the description that the seller knows the pickup worked when pulled or that it has a good output rating for that pickup, preferably both if applicable.

Quote:
Thanks for conversing with me about this stuff. It's fun and educational. "It's Educational!".


Any time. :)

I just hope I've been more knowledgeable than those hipster morons that Guitar Center hires. :P

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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:09 am
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I was reading that Gibby uses medium jumbo on their SG's. So.. I don't know why I feel like they're lower. Maybe it has something to do with the difference feel between rosewood and maple fingerboard. Because when I think about it, it's the maple ones that feel high to me. It doesn't make a lot of sense as to why that would be, but it might be a factor. For a long time I thought I wanted maple, but I'm really liking rosewood too now. So I guess I'm kind of open to either. I know those RI's seem to all be maple though. The black top model is rosewood though. At least the Tele I saw. Maybe it comes both ways because the Strat was maple.

Anyways,

I went to one guitar center and I don't know if I vented about it on here, but I really really dislike going there. It was a ridiculous free for all and I have a hard time believing they sell guitars there. I will have to say their prices are very good though. But almost every guitar needs a set up, a tuning, and feels like every kid that's eaten a peanut butter sandwich in the vicinity of 10 miles of the store has picked it up and played with it. I did learn a few things about what I like and don't when I went there, but it was about the most annoying experience in a store I ever had. Music go round bugged me, but their upscale compared to guitar center.

There was a guy playing slap bass loudly the whole time I was there. I mean, he didn't stop. For an hour. It was almost surreal. Kid in the back playing one long continuous fill on the drums. Not a beat mind you. Some goofy fill on the toms for a good 15 minutes straight. Weird, just weird.


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Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:33 pm
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I mostly always use my 72 Custom RI for just about anything. I love the WRB on it after a pot change and its great having the single at the back too with having separate tone and volume controls. You can dial in just about anything. I adore it!

Just my 2 cents. Best of luck.

CC

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