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Post subject: Hoping for help with ID on a Tele
Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:28 pm
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Hello everyone.

I purchased this tele recently, and upon closer inspection I feel a little "iffy" about a few things. I was hoping to get some extra eyes on it and maybe some confirmation to help me.

First off the neck. It's a great feeling and playing neck and the TR works as it should...so no worries there. But the Serial # font worries me...and the Logo does to. Also...the neck is stamped on the end, and has a paper tag...I've never seen one exactly like that (but I haven't seen a lot of any of 'em, so that may be "right").

The body came with a six saddle "old style" bridge...the '99s I've seen (which is what the serial maps to), had the "modern" style 6 saddle bridges (again....I'm way over my head here, so this could be "right" as well).
Also, the black paint in the cavities...I've not seen that before...I'm assuming it's some sort of shielding paint...but just wanna know.

After doing a little digging, I'm thinking the pups may be from a HWY 1....

Ok...so here's the link to the pics....any help you can give is GREATLY appreciated.

http://s386.photobucket.com/albums/oo30 ... 2008/Tele/


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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:59 pm
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I can't comment on the pickups, but the guitar looks like a legitimate/authentic Honey Blonde Highway One. The only thing I notice is a second string tree has been added and both trees are the "butterfly" type rather than the American Standard type with the two little balls on each end.

Paper tag on the neck looks right. Micro-tilt does too, and that's a hard thing to fake. Decal looks okay for a HWY1, but of course these can be faked. Serial number looks right also - the N9 (1999, approx.) is going to be in a different font than the rest of the numbers due to how numbering machines work on labels pre-printed with the year. The walnut trim around the truss rod hole is correct for a MIA Telecaster.

The bridge is the only thing that doesn't look original but guys are always swapping Tele bridges around so I wouldn't worry too much about that.


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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:05 pm
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Thanks George.....so they were making Hwy 1's in 1999? I was under the impression (false obviously) that they didn't start that guitar until the early 2000s.....

Appreciate learning something new!

G


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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:15 pm
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No, I don't think Highway Ones came out until maybe 2002 or 2003. I'd have to go check my stack of Frontline magazines to be sure.

However, it's very common for Fender serial numbers to be off by a year or two (or more). When the Highway Ones first came out, they used the same necks as American Standard/American Series guitars. They have since gone with larger frets on the HWY1/American Specials.

It's reasonable to assume that:

1. Fender doesn't destroy all decals every year on December 31. Certainly they kept using the N9 decals until they ran out.

2. The Marketing department probably came up with the Highway One idea a year or more before they started making them. They had thin matte finishes, different from the American Standards, but they used the same necks as American Standard/American Series guitars. They have since gone with larger frets on the HWY1/American Specials, but at first, they were the same except for possibly a matte finish - I've never played a HWY1 so I don't know about that.

At any rate, it would make sense for Fender's "neck department" to have a big run of necks to prepare for the upcoming HWY1s, so they made them and stacked them up in the warehouse to await bodies and final assembly. Those N9 decals could have already been a year old before they were applied to necks, and then the necks could have sat for another year.

Obviously, this is all conjecture on my part, but one thing that's certain is Fender serial numbers are often a little "off".


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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:18 pm
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Everything you said makes perfect sense to me George. I appreciate it so much!


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:22 pm
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Glad to help.

I just thought of something...

The first HWY1s had the regular "spaghetti" logo, just like the American Standard/American Series, if I remember correctly. They later switched to the '70s style logo - around 2005, maybe? That's stretching the 1999 serial number a ways, but not unheard of in Fender guitars.

I'm personally 99.9% sure that's a legit Fender but hopefully some others will comment. I don't want to put wrong information out here.


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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:35 pm
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Everything you said makes perfect sense to me George. I appreciate it so much!


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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:43 pm
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Hate to keep going on and on here, but could you get a better picture of the bridge, or let us know how many screws mount that bridge to the body?

In this picture, it looks like there's a screw in the middle, between the G and D string saddles.

A Highway One would have four screws holding the bridge to the body.

Image

If three, you might want to unscrew the bridge just enough to peek underneath to see if there were originally four and someone screwed a new hole in the middle for this particular bridge.

Given this picture of the micro-tilt in the body, I have to think this is genuine Fender, unless Squiers had micro-tilts too.

Image

EDITED TO ADD: Just noticed something else! See those two plastic tubes in the back of the bridge for the B and G strings? That most likely means this guitar has, or had, a Hipshot B-Bender with a G-lever on it, and that might explain the bridge swap. Some guys don't like using the vintage-style 3-saddle bridge with Hipshots and it's possible a previous owner used this bridge. It almost looks like a Squier bridge to me, but most Squier bridges have two screws in the front of the bridge too. There are so many various Squiers, Fender copies, and aftermarket bridges around it's hard to say for sure.

I'd bet you a nickel you'll see four factory holes for that bridge if you remove it...or just raise it up enough to peek underneath.


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:28 pm
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Good eyes George! It is a 3 holer, and that's what the body is drilled for...I put the HipShot on, and replaced the bridge pup, so I know that for a fact...I'd forgotten to mention that as part of my "things that make me wonder"...

So with that body being drilled originally for 3 holes, where does that move us on the body?

Thanks again!


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:01 pm
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Quote:
I put the HipShot on


Cool! I'm a Hipshot player myself. You should come hang out here:

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/b-bender-forum/

Quote:
So with that body being drilled originally for 3 holes, where does that
move us on the body


Hmmm. I'm now thinking could be a Squier body. Then again, I'm also
thinking I might have been wrong all along about some things - it
certainly wouldn't be the first time.

Thoughts & questions, in no particular order...

Do/did Squiers ever come with micro-tilts? I think it's safe to say that the
average "fake" Tele isn't going to have that feature in the body and neck.
I just checked the specs on the Squier Standard Tele and it doesn't
mention micro-tilts. Micro-tilts are found on American Standard/American
Series/American Deluxe guitars and basses, but I have three MIJ Fenders
from the '80s with them also, so if they made 'em in Japan, why not
Korea and everywhere else that Squiers have been made in the last 20+
years?

I want to say I've seen Squier Standard Teles in that color, but it's hard to
say as there have been untold thousands of blonde/beige/cream/tan
Teles made by Fender, Squier, and others over the years. Is the finish
glossy? The Highway One Teles (and Strats and basses) had matte
finishes. The pictures look at little glossy but it's hard to say for sure on
my monitor.

Squier Teles generally (but not always) had/have the neck pickup
mounted in the body, not to the pickguard. But pickguards are cheap and
easily swapped, or someone could have drilled the stock 'guard for
adjustment screws.

How close are the volume and tone knobs to one another? I've noticed
over the years that Squier knobs are closer together than Fender knobs.
Check out some pictures of known Fender Teles (such as on this website
in the Products section) and eyeball the distance between thos knobs to
your knobs.

Unscrew the control plate and look at the switch and pots. Is the underside
of the switch the standard Fender "wafer" type? Or is it a rectangular,
possibly green in color, sealed setup with all the lugs in one line? Are the
knobs full size or mini-pots? Mini-pots and el-cheapo switches indicate
Squier or "other" brand.

You might want to look around on Ebay in Musical
Instruments/Guitar/Parts/Bodies for Squier bodies (if you can find any)
and compare the routing to your body.

Let's talk about the neck:

Squiers usually have two string trees. The fact that these are butterfly
trees also indicates Squier or "other" brand. When I first looked at the
small pictures on your site, I assumed I was seeing the walnut "liner"
around the truss rod hole. Now that I look at the large version, I'm not so
sure. What's in this hole? Black plastic?

Image

While the paper label looks right at a glance, why is the date stamped on
the label and on the neck itself? You might want to look at Tele necks on
eBay (check seller Reliable Fender / Stratosphere for tons of 'em) and
compare.

The dates being different doesn't concern me - perhaps one is the date of
manufacture of the neck and the other is the date or guitar assembly -
but why does the supposedly 11-year-old stamp on wood look so dark
and fresh?

Image

ttp://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308 ... ele-07.jpg[/img]

I'm also starting to have doubts about this serial number font and the fact
it says Made In USA there. Typically that's on the front. Again, check
eBay and compare. While the number is always different from the N9 (or
whatever date code) due to numbering machine fonts being different, I
think this particular font is a litte off.

Image

I'm sorry if I steered you wrong. I confess when I first looked at your
pictures, I only clicked to enlarge a couple. They looked correct in the
small versions but I missed some things - like your bender tubing.

Still, it makes me wonder why anyone would fake a Highway One. I
suppose if you can sell at $200 Squier for $500 by sticking Made In USA
on it, that might be worthwhile. Adding Fender tuners and a neckplate too
is cheap enough, I suppose, but I could find better things to do with my
time - like faking vintage Teles to make far higher profits, if I were so
inclined.


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:17 pm
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George,
You raise good points, and much better than the ones I had in my mind. When I got it, it had CTS Pots (EPO 85) and a typical Fender USA wafer-type switch.

I've switched them out with RS stuff because I just prefer them. As for the area around the TR, it's all wood there, no plastic....

I've emailed Fender the serial hoping they'll have it in their database and can tell me what model it mapped to...that would be a start. If it comes back as "nada", or something odd, we'll know it's a fake neck.

All in all, the neck is a good one, and I have no desire to replace it....I have no issues with having an import or "no name" neck if it's a nice one, and this one is...but I don't want to pay for what I didn't get.

I am really wondering about the body. I'm guessing it's a squier or some other import....but I really wanna find out.

Once again, I appreciate ALL your input, and welcome every bit of it!

Thanks!
Greg


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:33 pm
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Fender emailed me back...they don't have a record of that serial number....said it "could" be from 1990, then asked for some pics, which I sent......I'm not feeling good here.....


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:25 pm
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The serial number and "made in USA" on the back of the headstock looks legit for a highway one.

My highway one strat has pretty much the exact same thing on the back of the neck, But it is a 2008...

The 70's style logo and the tuners also check out with the highway one (upgrade)

The neck appears to be a post 2006 highway one neck, so the 1999 Stamp is weird.

Also the Highways one's to my knowledge did not have microtilt.

The body does look kinda squire like as well. Maybe the Microtilt feature was added?

It "looks" Legit, But many things seem strange.


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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:50 am
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Quote:
Fender..said it "could" be from 1990


Either Fender or their decal supplier made a mistake in 1990 (or 1989, or whenever decals for the new decade were ordered) and there are 1990 Fenders with N9 decals, instead of N0.

This is mentioned and pictured in the excellent reference book "The Fender Telecaster" by A.R. Duchossoir, published in 1991.

However, I don't think that's what you have, and Fender wasn't using the '70s style logo on any Telecasters made in 1990 as far as I remember.

(It's possible that Fender Japan did then, but that contradicts the "Made in USA" decal on your guitar)

Every Tele fan should own this book: http://www.amazon.com/Fender-Telecaster ... 619&sr=8-1


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