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Post subject: What Have I Bought?
Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:26 pm
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Greetings you Tele guys.

I'm normally a Strat man so rarely come over to the dark side of the Fender Forum. However, I've finally got around to filling a Telecaster shaped hole in my guitar collection, and I'm wondering what I've bought.

Found a nice looking Tele in a local 2nd hand shop. It had a sticker on it marked "This is not a Fender". When I looked at it and played it, I liked it a lot and bought it at the price you'd pay for a good Squier Standard. Talking to the guy afterwards, he said his partner had bought the guitar in the belief that it was a genuine Fender. He chewed him out saying it was an obvious fake. (He's the kind of guy who strikes me as being in love with the dangerously small amount of knowledge he has and loves to share it with people). But I'm thinking he might possibly be wrong on this one.

The guitar appears to be a '96 US Tele, and the serial number confirms this (N679234) when I checked it. When I got it home I stripped it down and took the neck off. It is ink stamped 15 Aug 96. The neck pocket is stamped 2 months later. There is nothing I could see marked on the bridge pickup which seems to have the requisite metal plate on the bottom. I didn't look at the neck pickup. The guitar is finished in a deep sparkly crimson with a cream parchment pickguard. The fretbaord is maple - slightly lighter than the neck as seen from the side. The bridge has 6 block style saddles.

Indicators that it may not be what it seems are as follows:

1) There is no embossed Fender stamp on the rectangular bridge plate. Were they always stamped? The neck plate is stamped with the usual F.

2) The guitar has 2 string trees and the logo seems to be situated further back up the headstock so as not to be fouled by the trees. This was proof as far as the seller was concerned, but I've checked other images of '96 Fender Teles and this actually seems right to me.

3) The jack socket is a standard surface mounted job (in the usual position) rather than being the usual cup-style socket I've seen many times. (I understand these often slip so it may have been replaced by the previous owner is what I'm speculating..)

4) The varnish on the neck and fretboard is very high gloss and really quite dark (orangey..)

The guitar sounds dead on tele and the guitar feels of good quality with a great fret job and no sharp overhanging fret ends. I'm not convinced that it is "the good quality, clever Chinese fake" that the trader believes it to be. Whatever it is, I'm happy with the quality, the sound and the price I paid. Clearly the guitar has been looked after. I have to also commend the 2nd hand shop for their honesty.

Being a Strat player, I know very little about Teles. Anyone got any initial thoughts?


Last edited by adey on Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:37 pm
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Great story, if it's a genuine Fender.

Can you post some pictures on www.photobucket.com or somewhere so we can see it? Now that you have it disassembled, it's the perfect time to take some detailed pictures which we can use to hopefully tell you what you have.


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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:48 pm
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Sorry George, you read my first draft of half the post before I did the final edit..


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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:54 pm
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Can we please see some pictures of your find? Thanks! :)


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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:10 pm
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Guess I jumped the gun. I love playing "name that Telecaster" and still think pics would be helpful. However, we can work without them because you obviously know what you're talking about - much better than some new posters here who say "it's red, how much is it worth?", etc. :lol:

I don't see any immediate red flags in your post, but two string trees and six block saddles could also indicate a Squier. I only say that because the shop owner is so sure it's not a real Fender. Did you ask him why he thought it was fake? [EDIT: oops, just re-read your post and saw it was the decal position]

I doubt you have a Chinese counterfeit as you see with fake Gibsons, but it's not uncommon to see Squier decals sanded off and Fender decals applied to headstocks. There are also lots of aftermarket parts manufacturers like Warmoth who will sell a blank headstock, and guys will stick fake Fender decals on them also.

One quick thing I check when suspecting a Squier is their control plates have the volume and tone controls closer together than on a Fender Tele. You can see this easily if you compare any genuine Fender Tele (like the pics at this website, or at www.musiciansfriend.com to) to a Squier Tele. Hopefully you'll see your volume and tone pots are far enough away from one another to be a Fender instead of a Squier.

Other thoughts:

Describe the string trees. Are they the "butterfly" type or the newer kind with the tiny ball ends at the top and a sloping shaft down to the headstock?

Are the saddle adjustment screws offset to the bass side or are they in the middle of the saddles? Are there three screws holding down the bridge, and are they farther away from the neck than the string-through-body holes? Are there two small screws at the front of the bridge plate (closest to the neck)?

Does the neck plate have a micro-tilt adjustment? Was there a white sticker on the back of the neck after you removed it, such as one with lines on it and initials or anything?

22 frets?

Neck pickup mounted to the pickguard (like a Strat) with two exposed adjustment screws?

Describe the truss rod adjustment area. Is it at the headstock? If so, is the hole surrounded by a slightly darker wood, or is it plastic? No trim at all and just a hole in the maple?

That's all I can think of for now. I'm sure some other Tele-spec fanatics will be along shortly to help.


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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:04 pm
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Posting pics shortly - thanks for helping guys..

1) String trees are butterfly type.
2) 21 frets.
3) There are 3 screws securing the bridge plate at the bottom, 2 screws at the top.
4) The 3 bottom screws are below the string ferrules (ie closer to the the bottom end of the guitar).
5) Truss rod access point is at the headstock end. There is no inner liner into the hole.
6) Only markings in the neck pocket was the ink stamped date. Didn't see any sigs, initials, lines or stickers.
7) 2 exposed neck pickup height adjustment screws on the pickguard.
8) No micro tilt adjustment on the neck plate - 4 screw fixing.


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:25 pm
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here are some pics:

Image

Image

Image

Image


Last edited by adey on Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:36 pm
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adey wrote:
Posting pics shortly - thanks for helping guys..

1) String trees are butterfly type.
2) 21 frets and not a vintage reissue.
3) There are 3 screws securing the bridge plate at the bottom, 2 screws at the top.
4) The 3 bottom screws are below the string ferrules (ie closer to the the bottom end of the guitar).
5) Truss rod access point is at the headstock end. There is no inner liner into the hole.
6) Only markings in the neck pocket was the ink stamped date. Didn't see any sigs, initials, lines or stickers.
7) 2 exposed neck pickup height adjustment screws on the pickguard.
8) No micro tilt adjustment on the neck plate - 4 screw fixing.


Thanks, adey. The bold text I added to the quote above indicates why I believe you have a Squier Standard Telecaster.

I can only see that one picture of your Tele but it's enough for me to state this confidently. Volume and Tone pots are closer together than on Fenders - find some Fender Tele pics and you'll see what I mean.

But the biggest giveaway to me is the bridge. Those two front screws and the saddles give it away as a Squier.

Also note the saddle adjustment screws are in the middle of the saddles and not on the bass side.

Yes, you can put any bridge on just about any Tele if you're willing to drill some holes, but that bridge is unique to Squier Standards and I believe someone tried to make a fast buck by putting on a fake decal and even went to the trouble of creating a realistic Fender serial number, but put it in the wrong place.

These are my opinions and I could be wrong but I believe this and wouldn't post if I wasn't fairly sure what I was talking about.

Here is another thread that may be of some use to you, as I think you have a similar Telecaster.

http://www.fender.com/community/forums/ ... hp?t=25314


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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:02 pm
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Thanks George - you're a star. I was going to apologise for the quality of the pics, which make the gtr look washed out and much lighter than it is, but clearly there's no need now as they've done their job.

I appreciate your knowledgable expertise and efforts to help a stranger get to the bottom of a mystery. Looks like this one will be swelling my Squier guitar numbers rather than my Fenders..

As for the guitar, I'm happy I paid a fair price for what is a nice instrument, that the shop called it right and treated me entirely fairly. Now I know what I'm dealing with, I'll do what I've done with other Squiers (Strats) I own - Seymour Duncan Vintage p/ups, rewire and new tuners. The guitar is nice enough to justify these improvements.

Thanks again, and also for the further reading links. You're a true gentleman sir.. (And thanks too to fhopkins whose posts I'm familiar with from the Stratocaster side)

All the best guys 8) :wink:


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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:31 pm
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No problem! I love this stuff, and hope I'm not coming across as a know-it-all.

I see you've posted more pics since my last post. The truss rod adjustment above the nut makes me 100% certain that's not a Fender neck. Frankly, I'm not sure it's a Squier either, now that I see the "bare" hole around the truss rod, the kinda funky string trees and their strange placement, and the fact that the tuner holes are too low on the neck - the tuners sit too low, if you know what I mean. I suspect that's some no-name Tele copy from Asia, and possibly with a modified headstock profile, as the Tele curves are pretty good - not perfect, but not bad.

Check out pics at this site and also check out eBay auctions for Fender guitars and parts and you won't see a Fender like that. Of course there are fake Fenders on eBay too but if you look at enough pics from enough reputable sellers you'll start to see consistent features for yourself.

Quote:
As for the guitar, I'm happy I paid a fair price for what is a nice instrument, that the shop called it right and treated me entirely fairly. Now I know what I'm dealing with, I'll do what I've done with other Squiers (Strats) I own - Seymour Duncan Vintage p/ups, rewire and new tuners. The guitar is nice enough to justify these improvements.


That's what matters. I, personally, love cheap guitars and think Squiers are great for what you pay.

Who cares what's on the headstock? I know you'll enjoy it!


Last edited by George on Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:36 pm
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Oh, one last thought -

If you want a second (and third, fourth.....five hundredth...) opinion, and if you also want to recognize the errors of you ways and atone for your sins of playing Stratocasters, head on over to www.tdpri.com and really immerse yourself if the Telecaster world.

There are guys over there so into Teles they chop down trees and build copies from scratch!


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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:30 pm
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George wrote:
Oh, one last thought -

If you want a second (and third, fourth.....five hundredth...) opinion, and if you also want to recognize the errors of you ways and atone for your sins of playing Stratocasters, head on over to www.tdpri.com and really immerse yourself if the Telecaster world.

There are guys over there so into Teles they chop down trees and build copies from scratch!


+1 on the TDPRI tip.

adey after spending time there you'll forget about that Strat.


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Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:24 am
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I've decided to extend this thread as a diary, or sanity checking device, as this Strat player explores and restores/upgrades his first tele. Feel free to comment as you may see fit.

The first thing to be done with this particular guitar, was to get it's tuning issues resolved. From the creaking up at the Headstock end, I rightly assumed that the nut was pinching the strings (a hybrid 9-46 set I always use). No way this is the original nut - it's a botched cheapo platic affair made by someone with little skill. My local tech cut me a new Tusque nut and all is now well. I also got the vintage style tuners off and repacked them with warm grease. They now turn freely and allow accurate tuning which remains stable. Because of the new nut the strings are now equally spaced again and the high E is no longer in danger of slipping over the edge.

Moving to the block saddles - these are functional generic cast metal jobs which I'll keep for now until something better appears (maybe brass?) I've had to replace the 1.5mm screws though as a few had stripped at the heads. That allowed me to set the action properly.

Cleaned up and properly polished, the (Frost Red I think) body reveals poor initial prep prior to painting. Under close inspection, you can see light parallel grooves under the finish. It takes a close look though, and I've no intention of re-finishing the guitar. Neither will I re-finish the neck - as the person who put the fender decalls on used way too dark a varnish afterwards. This sort of expense couldn't be justified on an instrument with such humble beginings. It looks fine though, so I'll be leaving well alone.

Next job is the electrics - any suggestions for good vintage tones? I'm normally a Seymour Duncan man on after-market pickups, but a Fender set might be nice..


Last edited by adey on Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:44 am
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Got a Seymour Duncan vintage neck pick-up (STR1) from my local dealer. Haven't fitted it yet as I can't stop playing the damn guitar.

Had no idea that Tele's were such fun - straight playing machines with naive, raucous, no messing, in your face tones. Like a Gibson LP jnr I remember playing once. It also reminds me of my PRS SE Soapbar II too.

All in all, a good start to my little Telecaster adventure..


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Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:54 pm
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Installed the Seymour Duncan STR1 (vintage) neck pickup. Massive improvement on the stock pup (in terms of tone and power) which I have no reason to think is anything other than a Squier. As I'm new to Telecasters and have no musical buddies with a Tele, I don't have a standard by which to compare. I am entirely pleased with the upgrade though - sounds like the sound I expect to hear from a good T style guitar.
Look forward to acquiring the Seymour Duncan matching STL1 (vintage) bridge pickup to complete the set. I've had to order one unfortunately.

The minor works required on the rest of the guitar have all been completed - the guitar plays sweetly (great neck) and looks good too, so all looking good so far. I know of course that it will never be a top drawer instrument. Once again, I have to note that if I'd bought a new Mexican Fender model, I'd probably be slightly in credit on what I've spent so far.. Still there you go - the fun of minor restoration and upgrading, not to mention learning how these guitars are put together, all have a cost I'm happy to pay.


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