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Post subject: Re: difference between USA and Mexico made Fender
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:38 pm
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There seems to be a lot of wishful thinking & an inferiority complex among MIM owners.

MIM's ARE good guitars, and I've played some awesome ones, but to sit there and act like they're the same as MIA or better ( :? ) is deluded. They're objectively inferior, so whatever anecdotal evidence anyone has kind of goes out the window. If you're happy with MIM, that's great, but if you're gonna overstate how great the MIM's are and trash the MIA's as though they aren't objectively made of better material, then it just reaks of inferiority complex. It's odd, I don't see MIA owners trashing MIM's, but I see the opposite constantly.

My own anecdotal experience: I have a 50th ann. American Strat, my buddy has a MIM Telecaster. The tele sounds great, but generally feels cheaper. The electronics aren't great, the pickups aren't great, the hardware isn't great, & the neck doesn't feel anywhere as nice an American fender.

To me, MIM's are good, MIA's are great. Of course the quality varies between every individual guitar, but I don't buy this "I have a MIM that blows away every MIA" talk.


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Post subject: Re: difference between USA and Mexico made Fender
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:37 pm
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stanzmastertron wrote:
There seems to be a lot of wishful thinking & an inferiority complex among MIM owners.

My own anecdotal experience: I have a 50th ann. American Strat, my buddy has a MIM Telecaster. The tele sounds great, but generally feels cheaper. The electronics aren't great, the pickups aren't great, the hardware isn't great, & the neck doesn't feel anywhere as nice an American fender.

To me, MIM's are good, MIA's are great. Of course the quality varies between every individual guitar, but I don't buy this "I have a MIM that blows away every MIA" talk.


It is my opinion that all "NON CUSTOM SHOP FENDER GUITARS" are made of equally
good woods ~ no matter MIKorea MIChina MIJapan MIMexico MIAmerica MIFiji Islands.

The Custom Shop, Signature, Some Reissue, Some Anniversary Fender guitars
MAY have better woods or more carefully selected woods.

But, Fender does not want a bad reputation against ANY OF IT's GUITAR PRODUCTION PLANTS.
Therefore, ALL the guitars are made of great wood, IMHO.

But But But, the price differences is what goes onto the body & neck wood.
Fretboards, stains, gloss, paints, tuners, nuts, pickups, electronics/wiring, bridges,
control knobs and potentiometers, jack plates, strap buttons, etc etc etc . . . . . .
All will vary in price and quality as per the Fender Model being built.

I believe the American Standard and top MIM and top MIJ Fender models
are all good and equally well made.
Fender Deluxes from any country are a step up.
Fender Selects from any country are a step up.
The Classic series are really nice products. etc etc etc.

Buy Fender. You cannot go WRONG! But, you get what you pay for. Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: difference between USA and Mexico made Fender
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:09 pm
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Surely the biggest factor affecting price has got to be labor...


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Post subject: Re: difference between USA and Mexico made Fender
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:09 pm
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Boyd01 wrote:
Surely the biggest factor affecting price has got to be labor...


I agree it is a factor. So is shipping.
Costs of add-on components expecially pickups, fretboards & bridges are a big price delta.
Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: difference between USA and Mexico made Fender
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:23 am
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But if the pickups, bridges, etc are made in a foreign company, then labor will also be a major part of their cost. This may affect their cost more than the materials that are used.


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Post subject: Re: difference between USA and Mexico made Fender
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:30 am
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Boyd01 wrote:
But if the pickups, bridges, etc are made in a foreign company, then labor will also be a major part of their cost. This may affect their cost more than the materials that are used.


No Biggie. I agree labor is a factor.
My contention is that after the body wood and the neck wood, it is the added-on
components I mentioned that make the major differences in guitar pricing.

Japan's labor costs are fairly high. Also, Korea & China do not make
the vast quantities of higher end guitars that MIA MIM or MIJ do.
And MIA MIM & MIJ use higher quailty components.

Anyway, just a thought. Just wondering. Toppscore :)

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Post subject: Re: difference between USA and Mexico made Fender
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:10 am
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Labor Cost
Number of pieces in the body
Hardware/electrical

I would say in that order. If better wood means fewer pieces then it is better.


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Post subject: Re: difference between USA and Mexico made Fender
Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:10 pm
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Well I managed a business for a number of years that also used wood, hardware, paints, electronics, etc. and our union labor was 60% - 70% of our cost. But admittedly, I have not idea of the economics of guitar building.

Looking at annual minimum wage, wikipedia lists $15,000 for the US and $1,800 for Mexico. I'd hope that the Mexican workers get more than this at Fender, and I'm sure that the US workers make more than this also. :)

Regardless, there's a huge cost advantage to Fender just from labor (also lower benefit rates in Mexico no doubt). It would be disappointing to learn that they are using inferior materials in these guitars, but I have never compared them so I will defer to those who have.


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Post subject: Re: difference between USA and Mexico made Fender
Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:57 pm
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Why do so many members of this forum constantly have to compare American guitars to Mexican guitars to Japanese guitars to Chinese guitars to Indonesian guitars? They're all good guitars. Some are a better value than others. The Mexicans are a downright bargain. So are some of the higher end Squiers. And the higher end Fenders are reasonably priced compared to Gibsons or other brands. I haven't played a bad Fender in my life that I can remember. Quit comparing them, just play and enjoy them.


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Post subject: Re: difference between USA and Mexico made Fender
Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:01 pm
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bugo wrote:
Why do so many members of this forum constantly have to compare American guitars to Mexican guitars to Japanese guitars to Chinese guitars to Indonesian guitars? They're all good guitars. Some are a better value than others. The Mexicans are a downright bargain. So are some of the higher end Squiers. And the higher end Fenders are reasonably priced compared to Gibsons or other brands. I haven't played a bad Fender in my life that I can remember. Quit comparing them, just play and enjoy them.



The reason is that typically, MIA is the highest priced.
MIJ is probably the next. MIM is usually third.

So, if ALL of the guitars from all of the countries cost exactly the same . . . .
Would you buy MIAmerican or MIChina? or MIAnything not MIAmerican?

Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: difference between USA and Mexico made Fender
Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:06 pm
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Toppscore wrote:
So, if ALL of the guitars from all of the countries cost exactly the same . . . .
Would you buy MIAmerican or MIChina? or MIAnything not MIAmerican?


I would buy the one that played and sounded the best to me. The one that "spoke to me," if you will. There is a certain cachet to US made guitars, but if that cachet didn't exist and the prices were the same other guitars would get a lot more respect.


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Post subject: Re: difference between USA and Mexico made Fender
Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:17 pm
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Toppscore wrote:
The reason is that typically, MIA is the highest priced.


Exactly. Seems like a reasonable topic for discussion. For example, when I decided to the my 72 thinline RI, there was a choice between the American VIntage version http://www.fender.com/products/search.p ... 0100032809 and the Mexican Classic version http://www.fender.com/products/search.p ... 0137402321

The only differences appear to be the U shaped next on the MIM vs C shaped on the MIA, urethane finish on the MIM vs lacquer on the MIA, and a gig bag with the MIM vs hard case for the MIA.

Street price on the MIA is $1650 vs $750 for the MIM. That's a huge difference - more than twice as much for the American made model. I got the MIM and am very happy with it, but I'm wondering whether there's something about the MIA model that would have made me even happier? I couldn't find one in a store to try, but did try the MIM model before buying.

If nothing else, I suppose the resale value on the American model might be higher a few years down the road. But I didn't buy it as an investment. :)


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Post subject: Re: difference between USA and Mexico made Fender
Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:17 pm
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bugo wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
So, if ALL of the guitars from all of the countries cost exactly the same . . . .
Would you buy MIAmerican or MIChina? or MIAnything not MIAmerican?


I would buy the one that played and sounded the best to me. The one that "spoke to me," if you will. There is a certain cachet to US made guitars, but if that cachet didn't exist and the prices were the same other guitars would get a lot more respect.



My bet is odds are you cannot play them all.
Personally, I'd buy MIJ or MIM with confidence and
I'd investigate the reasons the MIA is at a higher costs.
Then, justify the lower or higher priced guitar's cache.

Feelings Speaking SoulSharing MutualLove Hugging & Kissing ~ all
may be nice, but, not always possible, especially with ON-Line purchaes.
Remember, Fender offers a lifetime warranty.


Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: difference between USA and Mexico made Fender
Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:22 pm
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Boyd01 wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
The reason is that typically, MIA is the highest priced.
Exactly. Seems like a reasonable topic for discussion. For example, when I decided to the my 72 thinline RI, there was a choice between the American VIntage version http://www.fender.com/products/search.p ... 0100032809 and the Mexican Classic version http://www.fender.com/products/search.p ... 0137402321
The only differences appear to be the U shaped next on the MIM vs C shaped on the MIA, urethane finish on the MIM vs lacquer on the MIA, and a gig bag with the MIM vs hard case for the MIA. Street price on the MIA is $1650 vs $750 for the MIM. That's a huge difference - more than twice as much for the American made model. I got the MIM and am very happy with it, but I'm wondering whether there's something about the MIA model that would have made me even happier? I couldn't find one in a store to try, but did try the MIM model before buying. If nothing else, I suppose the resale value on the American model might be higher a few years down the road. But I didn't buy it as an investment. :)


I'd bet my girlfriend's amp collection there's more than: "a 'U; shaped next
on the MIM (vs) 'C' shaped on the MIA, urethane finish on the MIM vs lacquer on the MIA,
and a gig bag with the MIM vs hard case for the MIA" ~ for an addition $900???
Don't cha think?

Take $100 for the case over the gig bag
Gotta be a much better neck than C vs U and the finishes.
Can you share a link to both guitar's spec sheets on the Fender Products pages?
Thanks. Toppscore 9)

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Last edited by Toppscore on Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: difference between USA and Mexico made Fender
Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:29 pm
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I bought the MiM 72RI thinline before MIA were in production. I have the 2 tone and it sells for a little over $900 because its ash. I wouldn't trade it for a MIA. It plays and sounds excellent. I do own a Gibson Les Paul classic and a USA Stratocaster plus. The 72RI Thinline is up there with them.


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