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Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 5:07 pm
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raeldridge wrote:
OK guys 'n gals, long time lurker, first time poster.

Let me propose an experiment and let's see how intellectually honest everyone is.

I go out and get ten, fifteen Tele's, from Squiers up to the absolute top of the line. Different countries, different models, etc.

Have all set up by a pro, intonation, truss rod, new strings, the works and even set perfectly by a strobe tuner blessed personally by Nicholas Tesla.

Then I put each of you in a completely dark room with a little Epiphone tube amp and speaker, you know the one I mean, it's only got a volume control. Oh, yeah, I cover the amp's power light with electrician's tape. (grin)

In total darkness I hand you a Tele randomly and you play it as long as you want.

Then _you_ tell _me_ the ones that are USA show dogs and which ones are the pound import mutts.

I'll bet money *very few* folks would even crack 50%

If you want only USA made, good for you. Thank you for supporting a domestic industry. If you're into a MIM and you're happy with it, again, good for you.

Full disclosure: MIM Baja Tele with a Blackheart (drool, drool) amp. I'm happy.

Now, submerging back to silent lurking...


Great idea and you undoubtedly would get some surprising results. :wink:

But playing a guitar for 15 minutes in the dark isn't really a true indication of it's total worth it is?

Of course not. Other factors such as Quality, Reliability, Appearance and Resale value cannot be assessed by this method and they are just as valid reasons to use in evaluating a guitar's worth as how well it plays or sounds.

To me, that's the heart of the question when you compare Teles made in different countries and in particular the comparison of MIM vs MIA is always controversial because the MIM's ARE really very good guitars (generally), but they are built to a lower price than the MIAs and this does show up in very slight differences in quality of materials and workmanship.

Speaking as a player, the new AM STD Teles are just fantastic playing and sounding guitars and I'm currently using one as my no. 1 player. I have a number of MIM Teles that I could choose for this task, but for me, the MIA is doing the job best.

Speaking as a collector, the intangible value of MIA vs. MIM comes into effect. Unfortunately, no matter how well MIM guitars are made, they still are not viewed by the marketplace as being as collectable as MIA instruments. There are a few exceptions to this - there are several MIM limited edition models that are becoming collectable and also the higher end MIM models such as the Baja are very well regarded. But a standard MIM Tele is just not holding it's value as well as a MIA std Tele.


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Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:35 pm
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deweese wrote:
Mexican made guitars are positively for those who want to spend less.
The buyer may tell himself or herself, "This Mexican guitar is better than American." This is being said because they refuse to spend the extra money
to buy the American guitar so the buyer lies to them self to make them self feel better and says that the Mexican is better than American. Now Mexican can be nice. However, American has better parts. So, They may say, "It played or felt better than the American." Some guitars need to be setup better than the factory has done. When it is all said and done. a properly set up American guitar that has properly passed quality control rules the day.
There are no real substitutes.


Wow... way to insult the majority of people who bought a mexi fender.


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Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:52 pm
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I meant to have more to the message but I hit submit, because apparently I forgot how to work the internet.
So the lite ash telecaster I purchased, I do not believe the duncan pickups/lite ash body/birds eye maple neck/ birds eye fingerboard was a guitar that they made an american model of. In fact I am sure of it. So trust me, people who buy mexi fenders aren't simply "convincing" themselves of anything in fact deweese I would think you are convincing yourself.


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Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:14 pm
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coldmystery wrote:
I meant to have more to the message but I hit submit, because apparently I forgot how to work the internet.
So the lite ash telecaster I purchased, I do not believe the duncan pickups/lite ash body/birds eye maple neck/ birds eye fingerboard was a guitar that they made an american model of. In fact I am sure of it. So trust me, people who buy mexi fenders aren't simply "convincing" themselves of anything in fact deweese I would think you are convincing yourself.


Isn't the Lite Ash Tele Korean though? :shock:


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Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:43 pm
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Yes it is korean. I have owned it for a while now so I forgot. I do also have a mexi standard. Actually now I am curious, is there a stereotype on quality for Korean ones? I havent ever heard it discussed. Either way... it played great when I bought it and after I did a little tender lovin care on it it plays even better.


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Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:46 pm
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Oh snap one thing I could think to add to the discussion of mexi vs american i think would be re-sale and future value. I am not sure as to how that is affected really.. do either gain value over the years? I would imagine they make so many mexi standards, and american standards that neither would gain too much value if at all. Now something they only made a couple hundred of, mexi or american I would imagine would fetch a pretty ok price down the line.. what do you guys think?


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Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:29 am
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My original post was said because I was angry to hear a person with a Mexican guitar who upgraded it talking bad about a certain USA model. It actually is on facebook. No insult to Mexican Owners. I do however think
a person can be deluded about the quality of his or her guitar when they say it is better than the American versions.


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Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:55 am
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coldmystery wrote:
... I am not sure as to how that is affected really.. do either gain value over the years? ...

Without a question, MIAs have two big drivers for value over MIMs:
1) It says "MIA" -- People will always want that and will pay extra for it. Always.
2) Fewer made -- Simple supply and demand here. The fewer there are, the more the demand.

That being said, older will always be considered a "premium". In 2024, my '04 MIM Std will be worth a lot more than it is today. But - without question - your ' 04 MIA Std will be worth even more. Further, the word "vintage" will be associated with it ... and that will freak you out because after having it for so long, you never thought of it as a vintage guitar before that.

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Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:14 am
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I've owned American guitars, Chinese guitars, and Mexican guitars. I can honestly say that my '07 Mex Standard Tele holds its own in terms of sound, quality, and playability with my '91 Am Std. Strat. Is it as good as the Custom Shop strat I owned, No. My Tele is an awesome instrument. Sounds great, looks great, plays great. What more do you need? They may not hold their value over time, but then again they may. Vintage "Beginner" guitars are fetching a pretty hefty sum on eBay right now. So, who really knows. A good guitar is a good guitar, regardless of where it's made. But, I may be a little Fender biased. I've never really played a Fender/MexiFender/Squier guitar that I thought sounded worse than any other guitar. Some played better, some sounded better, some felt better, but they were all pretty good guitars.

As for Mex Telecasters materials. My maple neck has a bit of flame maple in it and is every bit as nice as any neck I've ever played. The pickups are a bit microphonic, but honestly, they sound great. I'm afraid to switch them out because I love how they sound and don't want to lose that sound. Tuners seem to be of good quality. I've been playing and gigging for almost 16 years, and probably wouldn't have liked an 'import' guitar when I was new to the instrument. Now that I've matured as a person and a player, I know that I play the same on every guitar I pick up. One guitar might have a different tone than another, but I always sound like me. No way to get out of that one.


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Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:37 pm
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dalegribble wrote:
I've owned American guitars, Chinese guitars, and Mexican guitars. I can honestly say that my '07 Mex Standard Tele holds its own in terms of sound, quality, and playability with my '91 Am Std. Strat. Is it as good as the Custom Shop strat I owned, No.


I think that one thing that is probably very true is the the gap in quality between MIM guitars and MIA guitars has been closing as the years have gone by and most likely the latest MIM offerings are much much better than those of 10 years ago.

But then so also are the MIAs, especially the new MIA "standard" Tele and Strat, which appear to be a conscious effort by Fender to differentiate the MIA Std from the MIM Std. They may indeed have become necessary because the MIMs have become so good and the MIA guys realised they had to lift their game. :wink:

For the sake of this discussion, I have assumed the comparison of MIM and MIA to be current model guitars, and this respect the new MIA Standards have taken the lead in quality again from the MIM standards, the new neck satin/gloss finish treatment and the quality of the body materials being a the most obvious demonstrations of this.

Here's a visual example of the small differences, the headstock finishing of the truss rod and strings trees:

MIM Nashville Deluxe Power Tele (sorry it's slightly blurry)
Image

MIA Standard Tele
Image

They ARE different and remember the Nashville is actually an upscale "Deluxe Series" MIM, not a Standard and as a result it has higher quality Kluson tuners that are not used on the MIM Std. :D


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Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:41 pm
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That is definatly one thing I will say makes the MIA standards worth it, the tuners. I tend to over bend everything and grip everything too hard so I am already knocking things out of tune here and there. Neither of my two teles have anything fantastic for the tuners and I definatly notice a difference. Does it make the guitar worth the price difference? Im not sure but it would fix the headache the tuners give me ;) .


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Post subject: STOP BEATING A DEAD HORSE!
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:16 pm
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I think the people who concentrate on manufacturing details are just weird. I concentrate on the fun of making music. All the pieces on MIA and MIM guitars WORK. The MIM may use older type parts, but not necessarily inferior, but cheaper. I LOVE all the guitars I own because they are FUN to play. If I worried about the gauge of wire or cloth coated vs. plastic wire then I don't think I could hit "my B-flat right"! The guitars that Leo created are manufacturing miracles and have sustained our passions and dreams of the music created with them for more than 60 years.

Sure you can buy a boutique guitar, mostly handmade in America and it is probably called Gibson ($$$$). If you want Gibson quality with a lower pricetag, get an Epiphone ($$$). The same is true for MIA vs. MIM Teles. I think the MIM and MIA are closer in quality, than the Gibson products, because they SHARE a lot of parts, approved by FMIC, in America. The good part is all of them will make "music, sweet music". I don't intend to sell any of my "Children".

Oh and one more thing, BUY North American! It is the patriotic thing to do! 8)

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Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:29 pm
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Too many people are hung up on the whole MIM/MIA thing. I have four Fender guitars; two Strats, a Tele, and an acoustic. And guess what, I'm not going to mention where any of them were made! HAHA!

The fact of the matter is I wouldn't own any of them regardless of point of origin if they weren't all great instruments.

Shut up and play yer guitar! :roll:

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Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:16 pm
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I would like to see the heavy nitro lacquer finsh on a MIM neck.

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Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:21 pm
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I have a new MIM std. Tele that plays so well, I can't imagine how anything could play better. A "better" guitar would have to play itself. Not much fun methinks. I also own an ESP Ron Woods Signature Tele that I would not trade for any Mia anything. I kind of think guitars are like pool cues. If you can't win with a "house" stick, your not going to win with a big dollar custom job.


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