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Post subject: Re: Action Height Question on an American Vintage 58
Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:07 pm
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Blue Notes wrote:
stratele52 wrote:
Action must be read with a capo on first steel fret.

Surely you mean truss rod right?
The argument can be made to capo when adjusting the action as well.

Yes, on a properly set up guitar, the nut height will be the same as a "zero fret", but all too often it is a bit higher, which results in the action reading slightly higher than it should, so when adjusted to "x/64" it ends up being a tad too low.
On a properly set up guitar, the difference between open and capo on the 1st is insignificant when measured at the 12th.

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Post subject: Re: Action Height Question on an American Vintage 58
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:04 am
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...The grumpy old man repeats again and again and again:
When we are on the Fender forum,
talking about Fender instruments,
with people who possibly have very little experience,
we should take measures the Fender way and Fender way only...
(Action on electric guitars & basses: 17th fret, no capo.)


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Post subject: Re: Action Height Question on an American Vintage 58
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:14 pm
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jmattis wrote:
...The grumpy old man repeats again and again and again:
When we are on the Fender forum,
talking about Fender instruments,
with people who possibly have very little experience,
we should take measures the Fender way and Fender way only...
(Action on electric guitars & basses: 17th fret, no capo.)
It really works. Fender has put out a very organized and detailed setup procedure for Strats and Teles. Follow it in perfect order and you can't go wrong. If they say 17th fret, do that. Forget the capo (except relief measurements), 12th fret and other stuff. That's a starting point and from there you can tweak it to your liking.


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Post subject: Re: Action Height Question on an American Vintage 58
Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:40 pm
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MickJagger wrote:
But what seems amazing to me is that no one has mentioned the obvious first question.
What string gauge are you using?
Obviously, you cannot use less than .10 strings on a guitar with a 7.25 radius neck.
If you are using .10 strings and are having this problem; a problem that I don't have with my AV '52 Tele, you may want to try .11s which would almost certainly resolve the problem, in my opinion.


I'm actually using .009 - .042 :shock:


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Post subject: Re: Action Height Question on an American Vintage 58
Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:30 am
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That "obviously, you cannot use less than .10 strings on a guitar with a 7.25 radius neck" is just one person's opinion - like it says a little later on the part you quoted.

Jeff Beck, Roy Buchanan, Billy Gibbons, Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page...


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Post subject: Re: Action Height Question on an American Vintage 58
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:20 am
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...The banal youngster, one of the founding members of the Fender Lounge Alchemist Society, who is way confident beyond his years, employs his condescending attitude to people in the lounge who he believes have "little experience" with guitar adjustments, and who he apparently believes are incapable of learning anything.
Like a robot, he moronically parrots:
jmattis wrote:
"When we are on the Fender forum,
talking about Fender instruments,
with people who possibly have very little experience,
we should take measures the Fender way and Fender way only...

Wake up junior, and learn something about guitars and learn something about people's ability to learn about their guitars.
gconley84 wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
But what seems amazing to me is that no one has mentioned the obvious first question.
What string gauge are you using?
Obviously, you cannot use less than .10 strings on a guitar with a 7.25 radius neck.
If you are using .10 strings and are having this problem; a problem that I don't have with my AV '52 Tele, you may want to try .11s which would almost certainly resolve the problem, in my opinion.

I'm actually using .009 - .042 :shock:

There is your problem, GC.
There is a reason that Fender puts .010 strings on their 7.25" radius guitars.
You should string your guitar "the Fender way," which will almost certainly resolve your problem.
Putting .010 strings on your guitar will allow you to set your action at the lowest possible action, and should resolve any string choking issues.
You can adjust your action without measurement, by checking each string at each fret for fret buzz (without bending), adjusting your action to the lowest possible height, unless you want it higher.
jmattis wrote:
That "obviously, you cannot use less than .10 strings on a guitar with a 7.25 radius neck" is just one person's opinion - like it says a little later on the part you quoted.
Jeff Beck, Roy Buchanan, Billy Gibbons, Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page...

Amazing to see that the banal, exuberant youth, and prospective new King of the Fender Lounge Alchemist Society, mattaman, thinks he knows what strings Beck, Buchanan Gibbons, Hendrix and Page used on 7.25 radius Fender guitars.
Oh, that's right, mattaman read it somewhere on the internet.
He also has a crystal ball that informs him of the string height that these Rock Stars used, or other modifications that were made to the necks of their guitars, but fails to release his secret information to the "people who possibly have very little experience".



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Post subject: Re: Action Height Question on an American Vintage 58
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:24 pm
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MickJagger wrote:
...The banal youngster, one of the founding members of the Fender Lounge Alchemist Society, who is way confident beyond his years, employs his condescending attitude to people in the lounge who he believes have "little experience" with guitar adjustments, and who he apparently believes are incapable of learning anything.
Like a robot, he moronically parrots:
jmattis wrote:
"When we are on the Fender forum,
talking about Fender instruments,
with people who possibly have very little experience,
we should take measures the Fender way and Fender way only...

Wake up junior, and learn something about guitars and learn something about people's ability to learn about their guitars.
gconley84 wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
But what seems amazing to me is that no one has mentioned the obvious first question.
What string gauge are you using?
Obviously, you cannot use less than .10 strings on a guitar with a 7.25 radius neck.
If you are using .10 strings and are having this problem; a problem that I don't have with my AV '52 Tele, you may want to try .11s which would almost certainly resolve the problem, in my opinion.

I'm actually using .009 - .042 :shock:

There is your problem, GC.
There is a reason that Fender puts .010 strings on their 7.25" radius guitars.
You should string your guitar "the Fender way," which will almost certainly resolve your problem.
Putting .010 strings on your guitar will allow you to set your action at the lowest possible action, and should resolve any string choking issues.
You can adjust your action without measurement, by checking each string at each fret for fret buzz (without bending), adjusting your action to the lowest possible height, unless you want it higher.
jmattis wrote:
That "obviously, you cannot use less than .10 strings on a guitar with a 7.25 radius neck" is just one person's opinion - like it says a little later on the part you quoted.
Jeff Beck, Roy Buchanan, Billy Gibbons, Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page...

Amazing to see that the banal, exuberant youth, and prospective new King of the Fender Lounge Alchemist Society, mattaman, thinks he knows what strings Beck, Buchanan Gibbons, Hendrix and Page used on 7.25 radius Fender guitars.
Oh, that's right, mattaman read it somewhere on the internet.
He also has a crystal ball that informs him of the string height that these Rock Stars used, or other modifications that were made to the necks of their guitars, but fails to release his secret information to the "people who possibly have very little experience".

The Fender Forum is one of the more friendly forums I follow. Please be respectful. We're all trying to learn.


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Post subject: Re: Action Height Question on an American Vintage 58
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:56 pm
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LawFlow wrote:
Forum is one of the more friendly forums I follow. Please be respectful. We're all trying to learn.

I am always as respectful to those; as guided by the respect that I am shown.
I will continue to be guided by that rule.
I am happy that GC's problem, in using of .009 strings on a 7.25" radius neck, has been successfully diagnosed.



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Post subject: Re: Action Height Question on an American Vintage 58
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:10 am
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If we leave out the mindless ranting and personal insulting in MJ's post, the essence is that he says he doesn't know how to properly set up a guitar with 7.25" radiused neck for thin strings.
And from there, he draws the conclusion it's impossible.

MickJagger wrote:
There is a reason that Fender puts .010 strings on their 7.25" radius guitars.

Yep, but the reason is not what you think it is...
And BTW, Fender also puts .009 factory string sets on some 7.25" guitars, both 25.5" scaled (e.g. Classic '69 Tele, 5252202311) and even on 24" scaled (e.g. Competition Mustang, 0250130940) where the string tension is lower.
But since you don't believe in geometry (as we've learned in previous 7.25" discussions), I am sure you find a way to dismiss other facts, too.


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Post subject: Re: Action Height Question on an American Vintage 58
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:53 am
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jmattis wrote:
If we leave out the mindless ranting and personal insulting in MJ's post, the essence is that he says he doesn't know how to properly set up a guitar with 7.25" radius neck for thin strings.
And from there, he draws the conclusion it's impossible. .

After you personally insult me, you have a lot of balls to whine about my post, skippy.
The essence is that you think that a 7.25" radius guitar is properly set up with thin strings and high action.
I reject such nonsense.
It is impossible to put .009 strings or lighter on a guitar with a 7.25" radius neck and set the guitar up with low action, without the possibility of the strings choking out when bent.
.010 strings, for most players, will resolve this problem, and in all likelihood, will resolve gconley84's problem.
Apparently, you are too dumb to understand simple physics.
When you bend strings, the string stretches.
Heavier guitar strings will bend and stretch less than lighter strings when exposed to the same pressure, while producing the same tone and string tension.
Got that??

jmattis wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
There is a reason that Fender puts .010 strings on their 7.25" radius guitars.

Yep, but the reason is not what you think it is...
And BTW, Fender also puts .009 factory string sets on some 7.25" guitars, both 25.5" scaled (e.g. Classic '69 Tele, 5252202311) and even on 24" scaled (e.g. Competition Mustang, 0250130940) where the string tension is lower.
But since you don't believe in geometry (as we've learned in previous 7.25" discussions), I am sure you find a way to dismiss other facts, too.

Unfortunately, you failed to learn the lessons I previously presented on the 7.25" radius neck, and still wish to show off your dim-witted intellect.
You point to a Japanese Fender guitar, for which I can find no specs to that verify that Fender is putting .009 strings on a 7.25" radius neck guitar.
How about showing us evidence that substantiates your claim that Fender puts .009 factory string sets on 7.25" guitars with 25.5" scale length.
I'll believe it when I see it.


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Post subject: Re: Action Height Question on an American Vintage 58
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:42 am
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MickJagger wrote:
After you personally insult me, you have a lot of balls to whine about my post, skippy.

The topic is recorded above, and it's plain to see it was you who started and continues the personal insults & namecallings.

MickJagger wrote:
The essence is that you think that a 7.25" radius guitar is properly set up with thin strings and high action.

Where in the world did you draw that idea? :shock:
Of course, that kind of a setup can be just right for certain players (using Roy Buchanan as an example again), but it's not my personal preference - nor has it ever been a general purpose recommendation of mine.

MickJagger wrote:
You point to a Japanese Fender guitar, for which I can find no specs to that verify that Fender is putting .009 strings on a 7.25" radius neck guitar.
How about showing us evidence that substantiates your claim that Fender puts .009 factory string sets on 7.25" guitars with 25.5" scale length.
I'll believe it when I see it.

I still don't have much faith that facts would have any effect on you.
The part numbers for the instruments were in my post for googling, but if that's too much trouble:
25.5", Tele: http://www.fender.com.au/fender-electri ... ape&bcid=0
24" Mustang: https://www.guitar.co.uk/fender-japan-c ... red-guitar
Having owned & played Japanese Fenders since the eighties, a 7.25/.009 combo is not an oddity with them. And funny enough, the physics are the same all around the globe.

Generally & off-topic speaking, I'd your conduct on the forum has lost all its entertainment value a long time ago. I personally have a skin thick enough to tolerate the childish insults, but considering the forum's general atmosphere (and the code of conduct), I'd suggest you change the style of your writing.


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Post subject: Re: Action Height Question on an American Vintage 58
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:48 pm
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jmattis wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
After you personally insult me, you have a lot of balls to whine about my post, skippy.

The topic is recorded above, and it's plain to see it was you who started and continues the personal insults & namecallings.

MickJagger wrote:
The essence is that you think that a 7.25" radius guitar is properly set up with thin strings and high action.

Where in the world did you draw that idea? :shock:
Of course, that kind of a setup can be just right for certain players (using Roy Buchanan as an example again), but it's not my personal preference - nor has it ever been a general purpose recommendation of mine.

MickJagger wrote:
You point to a Japanese Fender guitar, for which I can find no specs to that verify that Fender is putting .009 strings on a 7.25" radius neck guitar.
How about showing us evidence that substantiates your claim that Fender puts .009 factory string sets on 7.25" guitars with 25.5" scale length.
I'll believe it when I see it.

I still don't have much faith that facts would have any effect on you.
The part numbers for the instruments were in my post for googling, but if that's too much trouble:
25.5", Tele: http://www.fender.com.au/fender-electri ... ape&bcid=0
24" Mustang: https://www.guitar.co.uk/fender-japan-c ... red-guitar
Having owned & played Japanese Fenders since the eighties, a 7.25/.009 combo is not an oddity with them. And funny enough, the physics are the same all around the globe.

Generally & off-topic speaking, I'd your conduct on the forum has lost all its entertainment value a long time ago. I personally have a skin thick enough to tolerate the childish insults, but considering the forum's general atmosphere (and the code of conduct), I'd suggest you change the style of your writing.
+1000 - Thank you jmattis


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Post subject: Re: Action Height Question on an American Vintage 58
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:41 pm
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jmattis wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
After you personally insult me, you have a lot of balls to whine about my post, skippy.

The topic is recorded above, and it's plain to see it was you who started and continues the personal insults & namecallings.

So what do you call these unprovoked unpleasantries, recorded above???
jmattis wrote:
...The grumpy old man repeats again and again and again:
When we are on the Fender forum,
talking about Fender instruments,
with people who possibly have very little experience,
we should take measures the Fender way and Fender way only...
(Action on electric guitars & basses: 17th fret, no capo.)

It's a shame that you choose to lie about this posting which was clearly directed at my statements on the prior page of this thread.
If you don't like personal insults & name callings directed at you, then perhaps you should not initiate personal insults & name callings directed at others.

Thank you jmattus for pointing out information which verifies a Fender 7.25" radius neck guitar with .009 strings from the factory.
I will admit that while all Fender "Vintage" guitars come with .010 strings, you are correct jmattis, that Fender does issue 7.25 radius guitars with .009 strings.

Never-the-less, the solution to the problem raised in this thread is to go to .010 strings, and possibly .011 strings if necessary, which is not normally not needed.
The guitar can then be setup with action that is just about as low as you can set on any other guitar, without strings choking when bending, with heavier strings.


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Post subject: Re: Action Height Question on an American Vintage 58
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:53 pm
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Sir Mick, jmattis was referring to himself as the grumpy old man. And by "the person who may or may not have experience" he was referring to the person who started this thread.

Nothing in that quote was an insult directed at you.
----------------
I don't think that disagreeing about how to communicate with new members is in the same league as the vitriol you directed at jmattis.


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Post subject: Re: Action Height Question on an American Vintage 58
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:18 am
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Yep, I didn't refer to Mick Jagger or his posts in any way with the post quoted. It was actually meant to be a funny comment on CB91710's post directly above my post, and with reference to stratele52/myself discussing (not fighting) on page 1 about how to measure action. And yes, the grumpy old man is me.

My point in that is, measuring at the 12th or 17th gives very different results and that may sometimes have significance, especially when we don't know the skill level of the person asking a question here (that's again a general comment, not specific to this topic).

On the thicker strings help a choking-when-bending issue, I (respectfully and all that jazz) disagree when it's presented as a general cure.
The distance a .010" string travels e.g. on a bend from 12th fret e up to g is easily big enough to bring out the more-prone-to-choking-than-flat-fretboards feature in the geometry of a 7.25" neck.


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