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Post subject: Re: need help with classic 50s truss rod adjustment
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:12 am
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I don't feel this is a language problem. I'm more inclined to believe that the diagnosing isn't clear, and there may be several things wrong with the setup. And because of that, the advice given here may not be helpful at all.

So, I'll just repeat my previous: have a good pro do a full check/setup for the guitar. When that is done, you can tweak whatever you like - just make a note of what you change and how much, so it's easy to return to the original setup. Like a wise fellow forum member wrote:
strayedstrater wrote:
it's a lot easier to learn with a guitar that doesn't have existing issues that you can't diagnose clearly.


On that notched ruler... It may be handy in some cases, but then again modders/techs/luthiers got along just fine for decades before it became available. Most players-who-DIY-their-setups never need one.
And frets can be checked without one - eyeballing for dents, a fret rocker (hi-tech) or a steel ruler cut in shorter pieces (lo-tech) for high/low frets. :wink:


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Post subject: Re: need help with classic 50s truss rod adjustment
Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:49 am
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jmattis wrote:
I'm more inclined to believe that the diagnosing isn't clear, and there may be several things wrong with the setup. And because of that, the advice given here may not be helpful at all.

So, I'll just repeat my previous: have a good pro do a full check/setup for the guitar. :



+1


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Post subject: Re: need help with classic 50s truss rod adjustment
Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:10 am
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The photos in the first post hint that possibly the attempted measurement is done with only one string fitted.
If this is the case, the guitar needs a full set of strings and tuning to pitch before even thinking of measuring for neck relief - just one string will not provide sufficient tension to pull the neck forward.

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Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.


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Post subject: Re: need help with classic 50s truss rod adjustment
Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:45 am
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stratmangler wrote:
The photos in the first post hint that possibly the attempted measurement is done with only one string fitted.
If this is the case, the guitar needs a full set of strings and tuning to pitch before even thinking of measuring for neck relief - just one string will not provide sufficient tension to pull the neck forward.



+1000

That is what I write; all strings must be there


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Post subject: Re: need help with classic 50s truss rod adjustment
Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:29 am
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stratele52 wrote:
stratmangler wrote:
The photos in the first post hint that possibly the attempted measurement is done with only one string fitted.
If this is the case, the guitar needs a full set of strings and tuning to pitch before even thinking of measuring for neck relief - just one string will not provide sufficient tension to pull the neck forward.



+1000

That is what I write; all strings must be there


I have to admit to being guilty of skim reading.
I see the OP has sorted the problem out, which is good.

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Chris :)

Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.


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Post subject: Re: need help with classic 50s truss rod adjustment
Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:07 pm
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Hi Ken88,
I'm glad to see that you have at least temporarily, resolved your problem with new strings.
I assume that you probably spent a lot of money on a Notched Straightedge and have probably found that your neck and frets are essentially straight, unless your guitar has been subjected to severe heat and moisture, which I doubt is the case.

Now I'm going to tell you to buy an inexpensive item: a "Truss Rod Crank" (Item # 6138) from Stewart MacDonald $6.25.
This tool is essential for adjusting a traditional style Fender truss rod.
http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Ty ... _Tele.html
Image

Adjust your Telecaster neck with the strings on the guitar and in tune, by simply removing or dislodging the pickguard as shown in the picture below.

Image

I assume that your bridge has not been adjusted.
If it is where it was when you bought the guitar leave it there for now.
If you have extensively played with the bridge saddle height and are concerned that it is not properly adjusted, use common sense and your eyes to return the bridge saddles to a medium height so that the string height generally follows the "crown" or "radius" of the neck.

On three saddle "barrel" bridges, the the top and bottom saddles are adjusted higher toward the middle saddle and lower at the ends, while the middle saddle should be essentially somewhat level
Put your strings on, tune the guitar, and adjust your intonation using open string tuning, checked at the 12th fret.
Adjust the length of the string at the bridge saddle contact point until both the open string tuning and the 12th fret tuning are the same.
There are more sophisticated approaches to intonation tuning with "barrel bridge" Teles, but that is beyond the scope of this discussion, and the 12th fret method will surely full-fill your needs.

Next, forget about using a capo and feeler gauges to measure string clearance regarding a truss rod adjustment.
In my opinion, this is completely unnecessary and leads to arbitrary truss rod adjustments that are often incorrect or less than optimum.

You have been playing this guitar for 2-3 years and by now you should know what string height feels best for you.
Learn to use your eyes and hands to adjust your truss rod as well as your string action.
Some players like a higher string height, while some like me, like the action to be as low as possible without the strings fretting out.

Generally, the bridge saddles are used to adjust string height, but the truss rod will also affect string height.
If the bridge is properly adjusted and the strings begin to fret out, or the string height becomes too high due to movement of the wood in the neck, a truss rod adjustment is in order.

You have stated that your neck seemed to be "back bowed" with light strings, which you said are .09s, even after you extensively loosened the truss rod.
This seems highly unusual to me.
You did not say how you determined that the neck was "bowed back" or whether this observations was made with only one string in place.

To determine the straightness of the neck, with ALL strings in tune, sight down the neck on both sides of the neck, looking from the base of the guitar.
You want the edges of the neck at the fret ends, on both sides to appear straight, or almost straight, with only the slightest little bit of relief (forward curvature).
You should start by adjusting the neck to look "straight" with the strings in tune.

After you adjust the truss rod to effect this straight look to the neck, re-tune the guitar and check the string action.
Adjust the bridge saddle height if necessary, to obtain the desired string height, remembering that the bridge saddles and strings should generally follow the neck radius.

After each bridge saddle adjustment, check the string acoustically at each fret for any fret buzz.
Determine if the string "frets out" at any of the frets, and raise the bridge saddle if necessary.
If a string does not fret out at any fret, you may want to try to lower the string.
Generally, the bridge saddle adjuster screw closest to the string, is the screw to raise or lower.

However, adjusting one bridge saddle screw may require you to again check the second string on the saddle, and may require adjusting the other adjustment screw to compensate for the previous adjustment regarding the other string and other adjustment screw.
So when adjusting barrel style saddles, both strings should always be checked at every fret for fret buzz, after any single adjustment that is directed at any single string height.

It is simply trial and error in attempting to find the sweet spot for each string height.
If you have tried a lot of adjustments and cannot eliminate fret buzzing without raising one or more strings to an uncomfortable height, you can try to take a 1/4 turn out of the truss rod (adding a slight bit of relief) and then re-adjust the bridge saddle(s) if necessary.

IMPORTANT -- Whenever you make a truss rod adjustment, you should then give the neck a bend forward and a bend backward, to try to set the truss rod adjustment into the wood.
You normally will not need to wait days to see the effect of your truss rod adjustment.

You stated that you have some dented frets at the top of the neck.
This will probably require raising the string saddle height, possibly higher than you would necessarily like.
This is done by trial and error, finding a desired string height without fret buzz, or possibly with a "minimal" amount of limited string buzz that you can tolerate at a given string height.
A "minimal" amount of string buzz is often not heard when amplified, and sometimes, you may need to plug the guitar in to see how it sounds and feels while playing.
However, you should generally be able to judge this without having to plug the guitar in.

Finally, tune the guitar again and check the intonation of each open string at the 12th fret, remembering to re-tune the string after every intonation adjustment.
The more you work with your guitar, the more you will learn.
This is not rocket science!!!
No magic or extraordinary knowledge is required!!!

If you have patience, common sense, good eyes, good ears, and hands that can appreciate the feel of strings on a guitar, you do NOT need to take your guitar to someone else for adjustment, and you do NOT need to use a capo and feeler gauge measurements for truss rod adjustments.

Learn to adjust your guitar in this manner, and you will never look back.
Adjusting a guitar is simply finding a balance between competing factors which makes the guitar more playable.

Good luck.


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Post subject: Re: need help with classic 50s truss rod adjustment
Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 5:20 am
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MickJagger wrote:
Hi Ken88,
Now I'm going to tell you to buy an inexpensive item: a "Truss Rod Crank" (Item # 6138) from Stewart MacDonald $6.25.
This tool is essential for adjusting a traditional style Fender truss rod.

Good luck.



+1000


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Post subject: Re: need help with classic 50s truss rod adjustment
Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:30 am
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Professional Musician
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Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:50 pm
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Location: Denver, CO, USA
Back-bow clarification: while Ken88 did initially say the neck was back-bowed, later on he said that he meant the neck didn't have enough relief. Still had some relief -- with the string capoed at the first fret and fretted at the 17th there was a gap at the 7th or 8th fret, but it was less than .010" (couldn't fit a .010" feeler gauge into the gap).

(Sorry, this forum doesn't let you see previous replies while typing replies -- I don't remember the exact details of how he checked relief, just that there was some relief but it was less than .010")


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Post subject: Re: need help with classic 50s truss rod adjustment
Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:54 am
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Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:07 pm
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Hi,

Thanks for all your replies. As some have stated, I realize there's little use in measuring neck relief with one string. That being said, I did measure the relief with all 6 strings before the string change. It didn't really matter much, it wouldn't have made much of a difference, but I'm glad the heavier string gauge somewhat corrected this issue. I'm afraid I don't think I'll leave these strings on for long though, to be honest I'd rather have a slightly bended neck than strings I dislike. There's actually some buzzing on the lower strings now, with a more or less perfect neck relief at the 8th fret of the low E-string, so I guess this really could be a fret problem and not the neck itself.

Please rest assured that should any other problems arise, I will let more experienced professionals take a look at this guitar. I'm sure that the guitar could use a professional fret dress. If you ask me the frets were never perfectly even to begin with, but it's still a great guitar and eventually worth the investment.

Thanks for all suggestions and the tip about the adjusting tool.

Wishing all of you a happy and musical new year.

Ken


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