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Post subject: Re: Custom Shop 51 Nocaster pickup upgrade
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:30 am
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Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:35 pm
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nikininja wrote:
I just avoid shielding full stop. Nothing wrong with the hum. I really doubt many classic recorded singlecoil sounds came from shielded guitars.
It doesn't work, as it's an incomplete cage and it knocks some to the top end off the sound. Which is what the Tele is all about to my mind.

No shielding and no RWRP nonsense either. Keep em like they were meant to be.
If you simply must take the path of less tone. Then don't bother with the copper paper from guitar stores. Get to a garden centre and buy slug tape. It's cheap, adhesive. You can solder to it, should you wish. And it's very very easy to work with.

Mr. ("No no and no") nikininja,
I can see from your signature line that you come from an "enlightened" segment of society.
I suppose that you were able to access this web site with Netscape, from your Windows 94 computer, since you are apparently into "keepin' it real".

I suppose you also peal the potting paraffin like substance off of your pickups, so you can get that true '50s microphonic pickup, feedback sound, too.
I hate to bust your nescient bubble, but Fender has used grounded shielding paint in their electric guitar cavities for decades.

Using grounded copper tape, which can be found at a very inexpensive price (https://www.amazon.com/Tapes-Master-10f ... e+adhesive), is only a substitute for what Fender has done for decades with ground shielding paint.
So "Keep em like they were meant to be."

If you use an unshielded Tele style guitar and like the sound of an electrical interference hum coming from your amp, or you think that the interference you get when you move the guitar like a magic wand is a cool interlude between your thrashes, like CBGBs used to sound like, then by all means, enjoy the electrical interference coming out of your amp.
Otherwise: "Yes, yes and yes;" sane people should by all means shield any unshielded fender style guitar.

And, apparently, we have another person seeking membership in the Fender Lounge, "Alchemists Society," who proposes a new grand guitar MYTH:
That ground shielding a single coil electric guitar "knocks some to the top end off the sound;" which is complete rubbish.
NO, NO and NO..........


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Post subject: Re: Custom Shop 51 Nocaster pickup upgrade
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:23 pm
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MickJagger wrote:
Mr. ("No no and no") nikininja,
I can see from your signature line that you come from an "enlightened" segment of society.
I suppose that you were able to access this web site with Netscape, from your Windows 94 computer, since you are apparently into "keepin' it real".

I suppose you also peal the potting paraffin like substance off of your pickups, so you can get that true '50s microphonic pickup, feedback sound, too.
I hate to bust your nescient bubble, but Fender has used grounded shielding paint in their electric guitar cavities for decades.

Using grounded copper tape, which can be found at a very inexpensive price (https://www.amazon.com/Tapes-Master-10f ... e+adhesive), is only a substitute for what Fender has done for decades with ground shielding paint.
So "Keep em like they were meant to be."


Really, do you want to do this?
My 2006 Hotrod, isn't shielded. My 2007 Custom Classic isn't shielded. My 2008 Baja Tele, isn't shielded. They weren't from new. My 1995 Mexican Strat wasn't shielded, but I suppose we can discount that.
As for claiming I know nothing of the matter, you're about to be proved very very wrong. Which I find quite pleasurable given the arrogance from within your own nescient little domain between your ears.
As for how I log in to this site. To which I've contributed much. A hell of a lot of it, still available to see. Which if you'd bothered looking for. You may have reconsidered your high handed assumptions of me.
Oh and the pickups I use. Well I have my Telecaster and P90 pickups made for me by a local guy who's mandolins I push. My Strat pickups vary depending on what the guitar is used for. As do my Les Pauls and Explorer. Were T-Tops potted, I can't remember? I'm pretty certain EMG's aren't.
Yes, 2/3rd's of those guitars do have unpotted pickups.

Anyway let's continue eh. This should be fun.


MickJagger wrote:
If you use an unshielded Tele style guitar and like the sound of an electrical interference hum coming from your amp, or you think that the interference you get when you move the guitar like a magic wand is a cool interlude between your thrashes, like CBGBs used to sound like, then by all means, enjoy the electrical interference coming out of your amp.
Otherwise: "Yes, yes and yes;" sane people should by all means shield any unshielded fender style guitar.

What complete and utter nonsense this really is. Do you think John Foggerty mucked about with a load of copper tape? Dave Murray? Robin Trower?
The simple fact is noise comes from way more than your pickups.
You Mr Jagger, if that is your real name. Really need to learn about noise, how it is generated and how it passes into your guitar sound. Shielding your guitar pickup cavities is pretty pointless in most situations aside from home use. Having a neatly laid out rig using quality cable. That is well routed, not coiled and not running next to power cable. A conditioned power supply and the correct use of buffers achieves far more. Trust me, when you've spent a couple of years going between pub gigs, 3000 capacity venues and squat gigs, in many countries. You soon learn this stuff if noise is really a concern. And not just a "want to do it cos I'm bored and can't be bothered writing anything".


MickJagger wrote:
And, apparently, we have another person seeking membership in the Fender Lounge, "Alchemists Society," who proposes a new grand guitar MYTH:
That ground shielding a single coil electric guitar "knocks some to the top end off the sound;" which is complete rubbish.
NO, NO and NO..........


And finally here we have it. Now I suggest you go and buy a capacitance meter. You can pick em up for £20 from Ebay. The increase in capacitance through the use of an incomplete Farady cage is quite well documented. Should you care to actually research something. Rather than just besmirching your betters in a bid to make yourself feel good about something.
And while we're about it, shielding the cavity simply doesn't work. It's an incomplete Faraday cage. It leaves unprotected the one area where the most noise enters the signal, the top of the pickups and the exposed polepieces. Which if you played anywhere other than your house. Somehow acquired a mind capable of thought and spent some time considering the matter. You'd realise. Stage light generated electrical noise is unaffected by cavity shielding. Unless you turn your back on the audience (I wouldn't put it past ya).
However sat in your house where you're surrounded by tv's monitors and fridges. It does shield against that. As long as you aren't facing them. Personally I rarely play amplified at home. Why do you think Lace pickups are so quiet, oh font of all knowledge? Want me to tell you. It's because they use a much smaller field of magnetic pull. Smaller field, less noise getting in. Good luck shielding the top of your pickups, oh wise one.
Do you want me to further expound why you hear shielding make a difference at home and why it doesn't matter in any application.
Noise entering the signal through the back of the guitar comes from your body. Not directly from whatever noise generators are in the same room. Their noise enters through the polepieces when you point the polepieces at them and are close enough for the magnetic pull of the pickup to pick up the noise.
Your body acts as a massive antenna for electrical noise. It pretty much grabs it and shunts it into the back of your guitar. This is why when you touch your guitar, the noise drops off. Whether you're shielded or not. Don't fool yourself into thinking you're earthing the guitar. You're not. What is happening is that the guitar is earthing you. All that electrical noise you've picked up is going straight into the strings, along to the bridge. Through the springs, if you've got a Strat, to the trem claw. Where that little wire takes it to the ground side of the circuit and shunts it off to your amplifier. Where it is sent to ground.
In any meaningful situation, this more than anything causes shielding to become defunct. As you'll either have some noisegates in place. Have turned down the volume on the guitar when you're not playing. Or have placed your fingers over the strings of the guitar. All of which causing that electrical noise to be of no effect.

Now the next time you want educating about something. Please don't adhere to internet dogma like it's the Dead Sea Scrolls. Just ask and don't be so rude. Cos we can all play that game. Whoever owned you in the Fender Lounge was probably right about whatever it was that caused you to take offence to that page.

_________________
No no and no


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Post subject: Re: Custom Shop 51 Nocaster pickup upgrade
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:06 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:35 pm
Posts: 807
Location: Just East of Event Horizon
nikininja wrote:
.....And while we're about it, shielding the cavity simply doesn't work. It's an incomplete Faraday cage. It leaves unprotected the one area where the most noise enters the signal, the top of the pickups and the exposed pole pieces. Which if you played anywhere other than your house. Somehow acquired a mind capable of thought and spent some time considering the matter. You'd realize. Stage light generated electrical noise is unaffected by cavity shielding. Unless you turn your back on the audience (I wouldn't put it past ya).
However sat in your house where you're surrounded by tv's monitors and fridges. It does shield against that. As long as you aren't facing them. Personally I rarely play amplified at home. .

Bravo Dude!!!
You are correct, shielding is not 100% effective, or protect against frontal exposure to electrical interference.
However, I believe shielding makes a notable difference in any environment.



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