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Post subject: Drop in tuners replacement for a 2005 MIM Tele
Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:28 pm
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Hello,

I own a 2005 Telecaster MIM that I'm very happy with (I play it for fun I'm a bassist, Precision kind of..).. except for the tuners that feel weak and I have to tune the guitar every time I take it.
I'd like to change them , but without any drilling of he head.
- Are locking ones really an improvement (vs standard ones) ?
- What are the drop in replacement better tuners than the default MIM ones ?

Thanks in advance

Luc

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Post subject: Re: Drop in tuners replacement for a 2005 MIM Tele
Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:42 pm
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Are you having problems with tuning stability?

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Post subject: Re: Drop in tuners replacement for a 2005 MIM Tele
Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 3:52 pm
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stratmangler wrote:
Are you having problems with tuning stability?


Hello,

stability during playing not really (no in fact).

I'm a little bit obsessed with tuning accuracy (I don't know the guitarist situation, but when you play bass you must be 150% in line with the rest of the band...) and each time i take the guitar I have to retune it, and on the top of that I don't have a lot of experience with guitars, but the tuners of my Tele are far less precise (they are very smooth) than the ones of my basses (but I have MIA basses)

Luc

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2010 New American Standard Jazz Bass / Sunburst
1996 USA Vintage Reissue 57 Stratocaster


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Post subject: Re: Drop in tuners replacement for a 2005 MIM Tele
Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:02 pm
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lstelie wrote:
and each time i take the guitar I have to retune it

That's normal. It's rare that I don't have to adjust at least a couple of strings when picking up a guitar.

The higher pitch of a guitar means that tension changes affect the tone relatively more than on a bass.
It's almost never the tuning machines that move, but the strings themselves that loosen up, or humidity/temperature changes affect the neck. So changing the tuners probably won't help much. You might get a more comfortable gear ratio, though.

Locking tuners help a little, because you don't have several windings around the pole. That means less string length that can stretch. But it only helps so much, as the strings themselves will still stretch. The main benefit to locking tuners, as I see it, is that it's easier to change strings and easier to tune. You can tune down to pitch, instead of down to below pitch and then up again, as there is no slack to pick up.

Changing to a different string type can help more - steel is less elastic than nickel, for example. Or changing the gauge.


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Post subject: Re: Drop in tuners replacement for a 2005 MIM Tele
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:50 pm
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lstelie wrote:
I own a 2005 Telecaster MIM that I'm very happy with ....except for the tuners that feel weak and I have to tune the guitar every time I take it.
I'd like to change them , but without any drilling of he head.
- Are locking ones really an improvement (vs standard ones) ?
- What are the drop in replacement better tuners than the default MIM ones ?

Hi lstelie,
Your MIM Fender Tele comes with "Fender/Ping" tuners, which are a Chinese version of the "Fender/Schaller" tuners that are found on the American Standard Telecaster, which I assume are still made in Germany.

My experience is that Ping Tuners do a pretty good job of holding strings in tune, though they may not turn quite as smoothly as Schaller tuners do under string tension.
It is normal to have to retune your guitar; possibly more frequently than you may be used to on a bass.

You should also be able to adjust the tension on your tuners by tightening the tuner knob screw.
I assume that Ping tuners adjust in the same manner as Schaller tuners.
Obviously: Do NOT use ANY undue force when tightening the tuner knob screw!!!!

As you tighten the knob screw, the black end of the adjuster shaft, on the opposite side of the tuner body from the screw, should move outward, but normally should not be adjusted much beyond the edge of the tuner body.
In other words, the black end of the adjuster shaft, opposite the knob screw, should normally extend to the end of the tuner housing, although it can be adjusted further.

Here is an example of poorly adjusted Fender/Schaller tuners, after I installed pearl tuning knobs.
The black ends of the adjuster shafts, are unevenly adjusted.

Image
At the time, I did not know that the knob screw was also a tuner adjusting screw.
After examining the tuners further, I readjusted the tuners with the knob screw so that the black tuning shafts were even, extending to the edge of the tuner housing.

This adjustment should make turning your tuner a little tighter, as it should increase the internal tension of the tuner.

If you are still not happy with your tuners, I recommend get a set of the Fender/Schaller tuners.
I believe that they should be a direct replacement for your Fender/Ping tuners.
https://www.amazon.com/Fender-American- ... B001L8MDKK

Image
Here you can see that the factory tension adjustment of the Schaller tuner shafts are set slightly inside of the edge of the tuner housing.

Personally, I do not like locking tuners because they are too heavy and alter the feel of the guitar.
For this reason, I do not recommend locking tuners.

In addition, locking tuners generally only make changing strings a little easier.
Admittedly, locking tuners allow you to use fewer string windings, and for this reason, may possibly maintain slightly better tension on brand new strings.
But in my opinion, once new strings have been stretched a few times and have been retuned, locking tuners do not maintain better tension of your strings than non-locking tuners.

Good luck!!


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Post subject: Re: Drop in tuners replacement for a 2005 MIM Tele
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:34 pm
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Whaouuu.... truly impressed I didn't know all these things about tuners.

Thanks a lot everybody.. and the IPTSMW (International Plot To Save My Wallet) wins.... I will have a second look at my existing tuners :-)

Thanks again

Luc

MickJagger wrote:
lstelie wrote:
I own a 2005 Telecaster MIM that I'm very happy with ....except for the tuners that feel weak and I have to tune the guitar every time I take it.
I'd like to change them , but without any drilling of he head.
- Are locking ones really an improvement (vs standard ones) ?
- What are the drop in replacement better tuners than the default MIM ones ?

Hi lstelie,
Your MIM Fender Tele comes with "Fender/Ping" tuners, which are a Chinese version of the "Fender/Schaller" tuners that are found on the American Standard Telecaster, which I assume are still made in Germany.

My experience is that Ping Tuners do a pretty good job of holding strings in tune, though they may not turn quite as smoothly as Schaller tuners do under string tension.
It is normal to have to retune your guitar; possibly more frequently than you may be used to on a bass.

You should also be able to adjust the tension on your tuners by tightening the tuner knob screw.
I assume that Ping tuners adjust in the same manner as Schaller tuners.
Obviously: Do NOT use ANY undue force when tightening the tuner knob screw!!!!

As you tighten the knob screw, the black end of the adjuster shaft, on the opposite side of the tuner body from the screw, should move outward, but normally should not be adjusted much beyond the edge of the tuner body.
In other words, the black end of the adjuster shaft, opposite the knob screw, should normally extend to the end of the tuner housing, although it can be adjusted further.

Here is an example of poorly adjusted Fender/Schaller tuners, after I installed pearl tuning knobs.
The black ends of the adjuster shafts, are unevenly adjusted.

Image
At the time, I did not know that the knob screw was also a tuner adjusting screw.
After examining the tuners further, I readjusted the tuners with the knob screw so that the black tuning shafts were even, extending to the edge of the tuner housing.

This adjustment should make turning your tuner a little tighter, as it should increase the internal tension of the tuner.

If you are still not happy with your tuners, I recommend get a set of the Fender/Schaller tuners.
I believe that they should be a direct replacement for your Fender/Ping tuners.
https://www.amazon.com/Fender-American- ... B001L8MDKK

Image
Here you can see that the factory tension adjustment of the Schaller tuner shafts are set slightly inside of the edge of the tuner housing.

Personally, I do not like locking tuners because they are too heavy and alter the feel of the guitar.
For this reason, I do not recommend locking tuners.

In addition, locking tuners generally only make changing strings a little easier.
Admittedly, locking tuners allow you to use fewer string windings, and for this reason, may possibly maintain slightly better tension on brand new strings.
But in my opinion, once new strings have been stretched a few times and have been retuned, locking tuners do not maintain better tension of your strings than non-locking tuners.

Good luck!!

_________________
2007 Precision 51 RI CIJ (prefered)
2009 New American Standard Precision Bass / OW
2010 New American Standard Jazz Bass / Sunburst
1996 USA Vintage Reissue 57 Stratocaster


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Post subject: Re: Drop in tuners replacement for a 2005 MIM Tele
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:18 am
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You have to check many thing before put new tuners, if not is like to play lotto :lol:

The nut: strings guide, how are they ?
Truss rod nut : is it loose ?
Intonation: is it right on ?


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Post subject: Re: Drop in tuners replacement for a 2005 MIM Tele
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:37 am
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MickJagger wrote:

Your MIM Fender Tele comes with "Fender/Ping" tuners, which are a Chinese version of the "Fender/Schaller" tuners that are found on the American Standard Telecaster, which I assume are still made in Germany.



Mick,

Fender stopped using the Schaller made tuners about 8-10 years ago; they use the Ping-made tuners on American Standards and Ping-made locking tuners on the American Deluxes/American Elites (if the knob on the tuner has the "F" logo on it, it's a Ping tuner). The use of the Ping locking tuners starts about 2006, but I believe the switch to the Ping non-locking tuners for American Standards happened about a year or so later. They had sets of the Schaller tuners stockpiled, but depending on where you order them from you could wind up with the Ping tuners instead of the Fender/Schaller tuners.

Minor point - the Ping tuners are made in Taiwan, not mainland China.

Schaller is once again making the Fender-style tuners; look for "Original F-Series" models (but they have Schaller logos instead of Fender logos).


Last edited by John C on Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Drop in tuners replacement for a 2005 MIM Tele
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:41 am
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Asian tuners on American made guitars ! :(


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Post subject: Re: Drop in tuners replacement for a 2005 MIM Tele
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:44 am
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stratele52 wrote:
Asian tuners on American made guitars ! :(


There are virtually no tuners made in the USA anymore. Sperzel is made in the USA, and Stew-Mac owns/makes Waverly tuners.

Even Hipshot has recently moved production to Korea on their tuners - regardless of what their website says about being a "USA production company". They just haven't updated their website.


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Post subject: Re: Drop in tuners replacement for a 2005 MIM Tele
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:07 am
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No tuner made in Germany or other country ?


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Post subject: Re: Drop in tuners replacement for a 2005 MIM Tele
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:14 am
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stratele52 wrote:
No tuner made in Germany or other country ?


Of course Schaller tuners are still made in Germany. However, Fender made the business decision to stop using them on the USA models and start using the Ping tuners they were using on MIMs and Highway 1s instead. Ping probably cut them a much better deal than the deal they had with Schaller.


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Post subject: Re: Drop in tuners replacement for a 2005 MIM Tele
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:06 pm
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stratele52 wrote:
No tuner made in Germany or other country ?

Gotoh's are still Made In Japan, as far as I know. Real good Kluson style ones (= SD series), plus of course the Rotomatics.


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Post subject: Re: Drop in tuners replacement for a 2005 MIM Tele
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:00 pm
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John C wrote:
stratele52 wrote:
No tuner made in Germany or other country ?


Of course Schaller tuners are still made in Germany. However, Fender made the business decision to stop using them on the USA models and start using the Ping tuners they were using on MIMs and Highway 1s instead. Ping probably cut them a much better deal than the deal they had with Schaller.

It certainly would come as no surprise to me if current day Schaller tuners, and/or American Standard tuners, were currently being made in the Ping factory.

It may be my imagination, but the American Standard tuners pictured above, which do not say "Schaller" on the packaging, seem to turn slightly smoother under string tension, than the tuners that I have on a MIM Tele, fitted with stock Ping tuners.

Of course, none of the above discussion relates to Fender "vintage style" tuners, and it is a little unclear from the initial question, what MIM tuners lstelie has on is Telecaster.

But the bottom line for the question asked, is that stock MIM Standard tuners, as may be pictured above, generally do a good job at holding proper tuning in my opinion.
You may be able to tweak the internal tension of the tuner by tightening the tuner knob screw to a point where the black tuner shaft comes even with the edge of the tuner housing.
I would not advise adjusting the shaft further.

And personally, I don't like locking tuners because they are too heavy, as they alter the feel of the guitar, and do not really improve string tension, tuning retention.

Whether there is any actual difference between American Standard Tele tuners, and MIM Standard Tele tuners, is certainly debatable.
My personal belief is that there may be a small internal finishing difference of the gear drives on American Standard tuners as compared with MIM Standard tuners.


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Post subject: Re: Drop in tuners replacement for a 2005 MIM Tele
Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:34 am
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MickJagger wrote:
Of course, none of the above discussion relates to Fender "vintage style" tuners, and it is a little unclear from the initial question, what MIM tuners lstelie has on is Telecaster.


Hello,

Here are the tuners of my Tequilacaster

Image

Image

Image

Image

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2010 New American Standard Jazz Bass / Sunburst
1996 USA Vintage Reissue 57 Stratocaster


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