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Post subject: Rewiring Issue
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:29 am
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I have a 52 Tele reissue from 2000 and the neck pickup has always sounded very muted. Replaced with a Dimarzio twang king and it still was muted. Brought back to guitar center and they opened the switch and removed a cap and some jumpers. Now the Neck and bridge positions sound good but when the switch is in the middle position (both pickups on) the sound is muted (about 60% of volume) and sounds distant. Took back to tech and he said the wiring is correct and nobody uses the middle position anyway.

Any ideas? Do I need to replace the Bridge pickup or adjust height? I am desperate for a solution.


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Post subject: Re: Rewiring Issue
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:12 am
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Sounds like a classic case of middle position out of phase.
Background & instructions e.g. here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=68054


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Post subject: Re: Rewiring Issue
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:23 am
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Thanks, I will take the previous post to the technician tonight and hopefully he will understand it. Does he need to make sure it is wired to the "modern" Tele wiring schematic too? I am seeing a lot of reference to the modern vs. vintage wiring schematics. I obviously had the vintage initially and now, I am not sure what he did.


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Post subject: Re: Rewiring Issue
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:55 am
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PMattio wrote:
Thanks, I will take the previous post to the technician tonight and hopefully he will understand it. Does he need to make sure it is wired to the "modern" Tele wiring schematic too? I am seeing a lot of reference to the modern vs. vintage wiring schematics. I obviously had the vintage initially and now, I am not sure what he did.


That could be - I think if all you do is remove the cap and the jumpers then the middle position is still only wired to the neck pickup, and something odd is going on with the tone control. Vintage wiring as done on the AVRI '52 never gave you both pickups; it was bridge pickup, the middle position was the neck pickup with the tone control, and the "neck" position was the neck pickup with that cap that gave it the muddy sound.

As I say I think that is the case; I've only had on AVRI '52 Tele (back in 2004), and I had it rewired to modern wiring before I even brought it home from the dealer - and I didn't have that issue that you are having.


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Post subject: Re: Rewiring Issue
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 11:58 am
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On Telecasters, vintage (also called Blackguard or Dark Tone) wiring refers to the bassy neck pickup sound, on the modern wiring you get similar (though not same, whisper the purists in the background) sounds by rolling off the treble. Nothing to do with in/out of phase pickups.
If your neck pup doesn't sound jazzy/bassy on pos3, my strong guess is you have the modern wiring. :wink:
A sidenote: on Gibsons, vintage aka 50's and modern wiring refers to quite different features.

At least that's how I understand - but I'm no wiring expert.

On general notes, any guitarist should have a trusting relation with his/her tech - like with a doctor or a priest or a bungee chord. If you feel doubtful, search for another, and in any case ask what diagram your current tech uses. My personal opinion is that if my diagnose via the net is right and the tech didn't find it, he/she/it isn't up to the task. After all, Tele wirings are usually relatively easy...


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Post subject: Re: Rewiring Issue
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 12:41 pm
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I am pretty sure that I now have the modern wiring less the .047 cap. I spoke with the GC GM and he is going to consult with a contact at Fender but as you said...even I was able to find wiring diagrams and learn about vintage vs. modern wiring within an hour of searching the internet. I have printed the modern wiring schematic and will take that along with the out-of-phase fix and they should be able to get me up and running. Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: Rewiring Issue
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:39 pm
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PMattio wrote:
Replaced with a Dimarzio twang king and it still was muted. Brought back to guitar center and they opened the switch and removed a cap and some jumpers. Now the Neck and bridge positions sound good

My guess was/is that this time also the AVRI52 vintage wiring was turned to modern - the switch functions afterwards would point to that.
So this: AVRI52 Telecaster 0100202 Wiring
To this: AVRI52 Telecaster 0110202850 Wiring Upgrade (2012)
Maybe.

Test the guitar in GC before you accept it back.
And on the thanks-part, let's wait till we see if I was right on the phases... 8)


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Post subject: Re: Rewiring Issue
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 1:49 pm
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Your linked wiring diagram is for a "post-2012" American Vintage '52 Telecaster with "modern wiring".
You have "vintage wiring," based on your posting and the bass sound of your neck pickup.

1) You need to buy a complete "modern Tele wiring assembly" (or build one) to replace your pre-2012 American Vintage 52 Telecaster, "vintage wiring assembly".
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wiring-Harness- ... Sw6EhUPezX
The "modern wiring assembly" should look like this, using a Sprague Orange Drop .022µF / 600V Capacitor, which I recommend:

Image
You will then always have the original "vintage 52 wiring" assembly in an unaltered condition, should you ever wish to reintegrate the vintage wiring assembly with the guitar for any reason, or sell the guitar, if you don't.

2) Reinstall the original Fender neck pickup.
They don't get any better than this pickup, even if Abigail Ybarra didn't wind your pickup, assuming that your pickup compares favorably to my 2009 pickup.

Problem solved.

Image


Last edited by MickJagger on Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Rewiring Issue
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:48 pm
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MickJagger wrote:
Buy a complete "modern Tele wiring" assembly (or build one) to replace your pre-2012 American Vintage 52 Telecaster, "vintage wiring" assembly.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wiring-Harness- ... Sw6EhUPezX
It should look like this, using a Sprague Orange Drop .022µF / 600V Capacitor:

Image
You will then always have the original "vintage 52 wiring" assembly in an unaltered condition, should you ever wish to reintegrate vintage wiring assembly with the guitar for any reason, which may also add to future resale value, if you don't.

Problem solved.

Image


Excellent suggest, Mick. Will sound great! Should be fun rewiring, too.

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Post subject: Re: Rewiring Issue
Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:07 pm
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Archtop Bill wrote:
Excellent suggest, Mick. Will sound great! Should be fun rewiring, too.

Not a big deal if you can solder wires.
Just try to keep the soldering iron away from the pickups as much as possible, as the electrical field of the soldering iron or gun, can supposedly have a negative affect on the magnetism of your pickup magnets.


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Post subject: Re: Rewiring Issue
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:10 am
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@MJ, the 0100202 link is the vintage wiring, the Upgrade/2012/0110202850 is the modern.
And as I wrote, I believe the OP already has the latter - that opinion is based on how the switch worked after the last visit to GC: positions 1&3 OK (= neck not bassy), position 2 volume loss & muted (and thus, pos2 points to my out-of-phase diagnose).

Except for the cap value, your Acme wiring and the Fender 2012 modern wiring differ in one point; Acme wires the output jack ground from the vol pot, Fender from the tone pot (that's a Fender tradition; the same applies to the 0100202 vintage wiring). Is there some tonal advantage in the Acme way?


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Post subject: Re: Rewiring Issue
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 12:40 pm
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I'm guessing the Dimarzio is the culprit, as it is most likely an opposite polarity to the original pickup...and the tech would not have checked it wasn't the original pickup when he rewired it. You could put the original back in...and all would be fine now, or reverse the polarity of the dimarzio, whichever is easiest.


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Post subject: Re: Rewiring Issue
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 1:38 pm
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jmattis wrote:
@MJ, the 0100202 link is the vintage wiring, the Upgrade/2012/0110202850 is the modern.
And as I wrote, I believe the OP already has the latter - that opinion is based on how the switch worked after the last visit to GC: positions 1&3 OK (= neck not bassy), position 2 volume loss & muted (and thus, pos2 points to my out-of-phase diagnose).

My mistake on reading the initial post too quickly and on my description of the Fender diagram that you linked.
I agree with your probable diagnosis of the neck pickup wiring probably being reversed and out of phase with muting in the number 2 switch position.
I would correct this by putting the original Fender pickup back in.

jmattis wrote:
Except for the cap value, your Acme wiring and the Fender 2012 modern wiring differ in one point; Acme wires the output jack ground from the vol pot, Fender from the tone pot (that's a Fender tradition; the same applies to the 0100202 vintage wiring). Is there some tonal advantage in the Acme way?

I don't think it matters tonally, but I prefer the Acme Guitar Works method.

In addition, below is a picture of a "grounding star," that I utilize when building a guitar.
All ground wires connect at a single point, or "star," which is directly grounded by the ground wire from the jack.
This method of wiring was promoted by an online "Guitar Nuts" article, "Quieting the Beast" as a method for eliminating possible "ground loop hum" (not single coil pickup hum).
This web pages appears to be no longer available.

Whether the "ground star" wiring method (which is covered with electrical tape), can actually quiet electrical interference is anyone's guess.
But I find it to be a cleaner method of wiring than soldering all of the ground wires to the backs of the pots, and it eliminates possible heat damage to the pots.

As you can see, the ground wire lead from the "grounding star" to the volume pot, follows the Acme Guitar Works wiring approach, to the far right volume pot contact (bent upward and soldered to the pot body) and it works fine.
While it looks like there are two orange drop capacitors here, the top one is reflection in the plate.

Image[/quote]


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Post subject: Re: Rewiring Issue
Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:31 pm
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I still have the original Fender pickup and could drop that off at GC to reinstall. They did remove the cap though to try and eliminate the bass sound when in the first position or neck position, would they need to put in a .047 cap too or just swap the pickups? I did tell the tech that the neck pup was not the original.


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Post subject: Re: Rewiring Issue
Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 1:37 am
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Just the pickup swap should be all that's needed.


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