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Post subject: New Elite Series Telecaster Bridge?
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:20 am
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I've just read my Fender news email about the new Elite Series guitars. These guitars are supposed to be of enhanced design and yet I notice that on the Telecaster bridge it still has the old 3 saddles that makes it impossible to attain perfect intonation. Perfect intonation makes a noticeable difference to the sound of a string as well as the tuning as you go up the fretboard. It gives a sort of pure bell like ring and if you've never had your intonation set spot on... try it. Fender should have ditched the 3 saddle idea decades ago.


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Post subject: Re: New Elite Series Telecaster Bridge?
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:06 pm
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American Elite Telecaster I count six saddles...
Image
American Elite Telecaster Thinline Has the three barrels, but they seem to be compensated:
Image


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Post subject: Re: New Elite Series Telecaster Bridge?
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:09 pm
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umpdv5000 wrote:
I've just read my Fender news email about the new Elite Series guitars. These guitars are supposed to be of enhanced design and yet I notice that on the Telecaster bridge it still has the old 3 saddles that makes it impossible to attain perfect intonation. Perfect intonation makes a noticeable difference to the sound of a string as well as the tuning as you go up the fretboard. It gives a sort of pure bell like ring and if you've never had your intonation set spot on... try it. Fender should have ditched the 3 saddle idea decades ago.


Yep, as jmattis posted that 3-saddle bridge is only on the American Elite Thinline model, and it also has compensated saddles to get better intonation. It's kind of a unique thing - the bridge on that one looks like it is u-shaped and it basically "hangs" on the top of the guitar.

The solid body American Elite models have the same 6-saddle bridge that has been used on American Deluxes for years.


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Post subject: Re: New Elite Series Telecaster Bridge?
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:28 pm
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Glad to see the 3 saddle is only on the thinline and as you point out, it is compensated, which didn't hit me in the eye off the photo. It's better than not compensated but it still isn't perfect and shouldn't be around on a high end model (or a low end one for that matter).


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Post subject: Re: New Elite Series Telecaster Bridge?
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:53 pm
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Another new feature... the trussrod adjustment at the body end. I would beg to ask the logic behind this one? I mean, this type of adjuster isn't a new thing, its been done before and subsequently changed to the head end as it can be a real pain in the !!!! when it gets a bit stiff and it doesn't make adjusting your trussrod a "snip" as described.

It may sound like I have dislike of Fenders, but that would not be true. I have a great fondness for them but there are some daft bits of designs that either don't get fixed, or do get fixed and then get un-fixed at a later date. eg: The re-introduction of the vintage style pickup (Texas Specials I think they called them at first). The original Strat pickups had staggered poles, biased toward the strings at the time... 1st & 2nd plain and 3rd,4th, 5th & 6th wound. Uderstandable as this evened out the volume of the strings. As strings developed the traditional wound 3rd became a Plain string, as this was better for bending and so the pickups evolved into unbias even pole heights. Some years later (probably due to the numpties thinking that the old pickups sounded best and shouting for them, Fender re-introduced the original style staggered pole pickup that had a very high 3rd string magnet. Hey, now with a 3rd string that's plain the sound is completely unbalanced between the plain strings. I have noticed that Fender have since dropped the height a bit on this 3rd string magnet and in the photo of the new pickups for the Elite series, it looks like they've dropped it quite a bit more (common sense prevailing I would say).


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Post subject: Re: New Elite Series Telecaster Bridge?
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:44 pm
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The wheel type adjuster means you don't need a specific tool to turn it; really any metal rod that will fit into the holes will work (at least 2, maybe 3 different allen wrenches will fit an work, even a nail). FMIC has been using this arrangement on the EVH Wolfgangs since Eddie came to FMIC after Peavey (and it was done this way on the Peaveys). FMIC is also using it on Charvels - from the big $$$$ Guthrie Govans to the MIM Pro Mods. Also, other companies have used this, like Ernie Ball/Music Man and Levinson Blade (plus many others). I suppose Fender just decided to try it out on a Fender-branded instrument to see what the consumer reaction is going to be.


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Post subject: Re: New Elite Series Telecaster Bridge?
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:27 pm
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John C wrote:
Yep, as jmattis posted that 3-saddle bridge is only on the American Elite Thinline model, and it also has compensated saddles to get better intonation.
It's kind of a unique thing - the bridge on that one looks like it is u-shaped and it basically "hangs" on the top of the guitar.

It is interesting that there does not appear to be any top side, bridge mounting screws.
As you noted, the bridge appears to "hang" on the top of the guitar, unless there are rear mounting screws (seems doubtful), or there are top screws that are completely hidden by the bridge saddles.
Of further note is that the new American Elite Thinline bridge is a "toploader," with strings that do not pass through the body.
I wouldn't really be thrilled by what appears to be an imperfection on the dark banding, unless it is a photographic artifact.....???
But, I do like that Fender used Schaller locking posts.
My final thought is that I wish Fender would have just used diamond shaped holes on the American Elite Thinline model, like the ones on Dave Grohl's DG-335 Gibson, and gotten away from "f-hole" violin styling.

Image[/quote]


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Post subject: Re: New Elite Series Telecaster Bridge?
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:05 pm
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MickJagger wrote:
John C wrote:
Yep, as jmattis posted that 3-saddle bridge is only on the American Elite Thinline model, and it also has compensated saddles to get better intonation.
It's kind of a unique thing - the bridge on that one looks like it is u-shaped and it basically "hangs" on the top of the guitar.

It is interesting that there does not appear to be any top side, bridge mounting screws.
As you noted, the bridge appears to "hang" on the top of the guitar, unless there are rear mounting screws (seems doubtful), or there are top screws that are completely hidden by the bridge saddles.
Of further note is that the new American Elite Thinline bridge is a "toploader," with strings that do not pass through the body.
I wouldn't really be thrilled by what appears to be an imperfection on the dark banding, unless it is a photographic artifact.....???
But, I do like that Fender used Schaller locking posts.
My final thought is that I wish Fender would have just used diamond shaped holes on the American Elite Thinline model, like the ones on Dave Grohl's DG-335 Gibson, and gotten away from "f-hole" violin styling.

Image
[/quote]

You are correct; the marketing text on the website says the bridge on this one is not screwed onto the top; it appears to be a friction fit, held in place by the strings.

I'm not seeing what you're calling an imperfection in the binding. The binding is tortoise shell on this one, not black, so it's going to have those lighter specs in it to kind of match the pickguard.


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Post subject: Re: New Elite Series Telecaster Bridge?
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:46 am
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John C wrote:
I'm not seeing what you're calling an imperfection in the binding. The binding is tortoise shell on this one, not black, so it's going to have those lighter specs in it to kind of match the pickguard.

That would make sense, given the pickguard.


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Post subject: Re: New Elite Series Telecaster Bridge?
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:48 pm
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umpdv5000 wrote:
Glad to see the 3 saddle is only on the thinline and as you point out, it is compensated, which didn't hit me in the eye off the photo. It's better than not compensated but it still isn't perfect and shouldn't be around on a high end model (or a low end one for that matter).


Not necessarily so with this particular bridge. My understanding is ..that even though it's three saddles, that either end of each saddle can separate and move forward or backwards for exact intonation. The bridge itself slots into a lip that is anchored what would appear to be the inside out of the guitar ..perhaps where the center block is laid from with inside. The strings are top-loaded at the rear of the bridge and ride overtop the saddles anchoring them down and keeping the bridge from moving without actually having to be mounted with screws into the body.

I plan on having this guitar within the coming week and will provide a full review . I played the solid body the other day and the new pick ups are fantastic sounding. Toploaded telecasters are my favorite as they are extra jangly with a lot of snap :D

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Post subject: Re: New Elite Series Telecaster Bridge?
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:30 am
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musicmatty wrote:
Toploaded telecasters are my favorite as they are extra jangly with a lot of snap :D

I like floating/trapezoid/lyretail tailpieces for that reason. It doesn't do anything good for sustain, but it does brighten up the tone, and also affects bends positively (IMO), as the extra length of string stretches during bends, giving a more "bluesey" feel.
Unfortunately, for Teles, there's not a lot to choose from that isn't string-through-body or short-hardtail. There's Bigsby, but I don't use vibrato bars anyhow.


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Post subject: Re: New Elite Series Telecaster Bridge?
Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:42 pm
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musicmatty wrote:
Toploaded telecasters are my favorite as they are extra jangly with a lot of snap :D

Not surprisingly, I have to disagree.
I have played a "toploader" Tele bridge for over 30 years, along with traditional Tele bridges.
IMO a "toploader" bridge is not "extra jangly;" does not have more "snap;" does not diminish or affect audible sustain; does not audibly brighten or affect tone; and bends exactly the same as a traditional bridge.

In other words, IMO, a toploader bridge plays exactly the same as a traditional "bottom loader" bridge, regardless of whether the traditional bridge has three or six bridge saddles (discounting any slight intonation difference that may be associated with the three saddle bridge).
Any of the above listed perceptions, are subjective perceptions, which are not universally perceived or appreciated, and cannot be objectively substantiated.
Such subjective perceptions cannot be said to constitute known objective facts associated with "toploader" Tele bridges.

Many of the negative perceptions associated with "toploader" Telecaster bridges, go back at least as far as 1983, when I bought my first MIA Telecaster with a Schaller Elite "toploader" bridge.
The Schaller Elite "toploader" bridge below was only used on the 1983-84 Telecasters, at the end of the Fullerton, CA factory and Dan Smith era at Fender.
IMO, It is still one of the most attractive bridges to ever grace a Fender Telecaster.

Image

In the end, perhaps the above listed perceptions are actually "REAL" (i.e., while not scientifically substantiated, are none-the-less "objectively valid" perceptions), even though the listed perceptions are not universally perceived or appreciated.
Or perhaps the above listed perceptions are actually just "rationalizations" or "tricks of the mind," that should be deemed to fall into the category of unsubstantiated electric guitar "MYTHS"; the product of the active imaginations of some guitar players.
You be the judge with your evaluation of "toploader" Tele bridges.


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Post subject: Re: New Elite Series Telecaster Bridge?
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:51 pm
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MickJagger wrote:
Any of the above listed perceptions, are subjective perceptions, which are not universally perceived or appreciated, and cannot be objectively substantiated.
Such subjective perceptions cannot be said to constitute known objective facts associated with "toploader" Tele bridges.

Says you.
However, when you bend a string, you stretch not only the run between the nut and bridge, but you also stretch the string at the headstock and the south side of the bridge. The stretchable part is slightly longer with a toploader bridge, and even longer with a Bigsby or trapeze bridge. The angle through the hole is too acute to get much stretch from the part that goes through the body, which you can tell when removing used strings.

A longer stretch of string that stretches during bends means bending slightly more to reach the same note, but with slightly less force. This should certainly be measurable.


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Post subject: Re: New Elite Series Telecaster Bridge?
Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:35 pm
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arth1 wrote:
MickJagger wrote:
Any of the above listed perceptions, are subjective perceptions, which are not universally perceived or appreciated, and cannot be objectively substantiated.
Such subjective perceptions cannot be said to constitute known objective facts associated with "toploader" Tele bridges.

Says you.

Says me.
arth1 wrote:
However, when you bend a string, you stretch not only the run between the nut and bridge, but you also stretch the string at the headstock and the south side of the bridge.
The stretchable part is slightly longer with a toploader bridge, and even longer with a Bigsby or trapeze bridge.
The angle through the hole is too acute to get much stretch from the part that goes through the body, which you can tell when removing used strings.
A longer stretch of string that stretches during bends means bending slightly more to reach the same note, but with slightly less force. This should certainly be measurable.

Another lesson from the "King of Guitar Alchemy," as to how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, as applied to the electric guitar......
I've never played a Bigsby, and I have no desire to play one of those "boat anchors".
Nor have I played a "trapeze bridge," except possibly in passing.
So I render no opinion regarding a Bigsby or a "trapeze bridge".

The only opinion I render is that any of the differences in "tone," "sustain" and "string feel," which you have alleged regarding a "toploader" Tele bridge, as compared with a traditional "bottom load" bridge, are figments of your active, MYTHICAL imagination.

The fundamental issue is NOT whether there is some difference that is technically "measurable."
It's conceivable that some test could possibly show that bending a string one step at the fifth fret with a "toploader" Tele bridge, takes one hundredth of a gram less pressure, to arrive at the same note, as compared to a bottom loader Tele bridge; although I seriously doubt that to be the case.

The fundamental issue is also NOT whether a frequency analyzer, combined with a sound level meter, could measure some imperceptible, and therefore, inconsequential difference in "amplified frequency," "amplified sound level," or micro-seconds of "amplified sustain," between these bridges on the same guitar; which I again seriously doubt would prove to be the case.

The fundamental issue is whether there are any actual audible sound differences in the amplified sound that can be actually heard by the human ear, and reproduced, with an overwhelming majority of numerous listeners (approaching unanimity), hearing a difference in "tone," or "sustain"; or whether there is any actual difference in the "feel" of the strings that can be reproduced and appreciated by an overwhelming majority of players (approaching unanimity); which can be attributed to the difference between the bridges, and not attributed to being the product of the active imagination and rationalized response of various guitar players, who indulge themselves in believing in rationalized guitar MYTHS.

I say that based on 30 years of experience with both types of Tele bridges, that there is absolutely NO difference in playability or string "feel".
Nor is there any audible difference in "tone," or in "sustain," of amplified sound, between a "toploader" Tele bridge and a traditional "bottom loader" Tele bridge.

Here's an interesting discussion of the same issue:

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-home-de ... ridge.html

I agree with the posts numbered 2, 5, 9, 12, 15, 20, 27, and 29.
You may agree with some of the others.


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Post subject: Re: New Elite Series Telecaster Bridge?
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:28 am
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MickJagger wrote:
I agree with the posts numbered 2, 5, 9, 12, 15, 20, 27, and 29.
You may agree with some of the others.

I think this portion of your post may be the most telling...

Neither you nor Arth1 are wrong; you are both speaking from your personal experience and personal perception, as well as how the instruments you base your perception and experience upon perform(ed).

I notice some slight differences between a string-through bridge and a top-loading one. However, the two guitars I base my opinion on (both Telecasters) had different neck profiles, types of body wood, country of manufacture, age, pickups and electronics, so there was more than one variable (the bridge being what I was trying to compare), so it would be unfair to chalk the difference in tone, performance and feel up solely on that particular difference (the bridge).

I've seen a few Urination Competitions, *ahem*, -Debates- which you have tried scientifically to prove your point (most notably on a thread discussing fretboard radius/radii). However, graphs, charts, hypotheses and comparative studies all go out the window based on two things:

(1) Unless a person compares the two types of bridges by playing/testing/whatever Bridge Type #1 on Guitar X and then installs Bridge Type #2 on the same instrument (Guitar X), the point is moot. Differences in construction, etc., can and will affect the outcome.

(2) The player's personal perception of what they see, feel and hear. Unless a blindfold test were done, the prejudices and experiences of that player can and will affect the outcome as well.

Is there a difference between a top-loading bridge and a string-through bridge?

Yes...but how much difference is based on what the player feels.

Good Vibes to all.

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