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Post subject: Re: Dating my vintage strat.
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:15 am
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ok;
thanks everyone, i will take the guitar apart and send the pics you are asking for. I spoke to the guy who sold it to me with the concerns, and he is being cool about a refund. Lucky for me! I cant find a serial # anywhere on this thats why i thought the 2947 under the neck butt was it. And as you know under 6000 is a low 50s era guitar. So thats my story..
will send additional pics asap....


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Post subject: Re: Dating my vintage strat.
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:22 am
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stratele52 wrote:
this guitar is made in Corona

Based on those three photos, I'd guess the body is Ensenada...

Anyways, that guitar didn't leave a factory as it is now.

And what's that color - Tungsten..?

Edit: No way that guitar is from the 50s. Not the body (CNC hole...) nor the neck (22 frets) nor actually any part of it.


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Post subject: Re: Dating my vintage strat.
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:10 am
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jmattis wrote:
Edit: No way that guitar is from the 50s. Not the body (CNC hole...) nor the neck (22 frets) nor actually any part of it.


+1000

Renegotiate the terms of the deal or request an outright refund and return the guitar.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Dating my vintage strat.
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:01 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
jmattis wrote:
Edit: No way that guitar is from the 50s. Not the body (CNC hole...) nor the neck (22 frets) nor actually any part of it.


+1000

Renegotiate the terms of the deal or request an outright refund and return the guitar.

Arjay

+1


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Post subject: Re: Dating my vintage strat.
Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:21 am
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I'll re-edit/revisit (or something) my previous edit...
IMHO, if that guitar was sold to you as a "vintage Fender Stratocaster" in the sense that the guitar is a pre-CBS instrument, and the price was in the "under 6000" (dollars? and how much under?) region you mention, you were played, and played badly.
The fair price (again, very much IMHO and based on the little info we have at the moment) for a guitar like that (no serial, not much proof of origin, lots of mods, and depending on how it sounds and plays) might be something in the MIM partscasters level.

It's often posted on the forum that any authenticity questions should be asked before buying the guitar. Too late for that, but would you tell the whole story behind this one, just to give some advice for others in the future.


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Post subject: Re: Dating my vintage strat.
Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:02 am
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jmattis wrote:
stratele52 wrote:
this guitar is made in Corona

Based on those three photos, I'd guess the body is Ensenada...

Anyways, that guitar didn't leave a factory as it is now.

And what's that color - Tungsten..?



.



Corona or Ensenada ? I don't know it is Coga Vice write that about his guitar in beginning of the post .


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Post subject: Re: Dating my vintage strat.
Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:35 am
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This is just my own $.02 worth here and I would certainly like to see a pic of two of the front and back of the headstock and the neck heel before I make a more decisive determination, however as others have already suggested, my vote goes to "partscaster". Before I get in to this however, I would like to take a moment and offer a comment or two about the term "vintage".

First and foremost, the word "vintage", at least when taken in the context of musical equipment, is a tad bit subjective, if not misleading. In this case I would reference Peavey...I have a few of the older Peavey amps from the early 80's that I would in fact consider vintage. This distinction sets them apart from contemporary models in that some folks (myself included) find the older amps more desirable. With Fender, this term becomes even more confusing...many of us who grew up in the 80's remember when people spoke of Fender with expressions of the "pre-BS" era. If it said Fender and it was made any time after 1965, then it really just wasn't worthy of ANY consideration. Over time however, attitudes slowly began to change and many of the instruments and amps that came out of the 70's are now considered vintage as well, with many even earning the status as "collectible". We can even see this today with some of the instruments that came out of Japan in the early to mid 80's...certainly such instruments don't command the prices that instruments from the 50's and 60's often fetch, but the use of the term "vintage" does begin to apply.

Very loosely this term vintage simply means something that signified a significant change in design...or one might even say instruments marked by the beginning and end of an era. 70's Strats for example, with their larger headstocks, 3 bolt necks and bullet truss rods...these instruments were different from those that came before or after (barring reissues of course). They -are- vintage, but like the analogy of fine wines, they are a different vintage from those that may be more or less desirable in terms of what came before or later. What makes this somewhat confusing however is that not all such differences between vintages can be easily witnessed without close examination. What's more is that often there may be little change in an otherwise popular model...the MIM Standards for example have been around since the late 80's. In fact I have a pair of MIM Standards from '95 and '96 and except for some minor cosmetic differences, they really aren't too different from those sitting on showroom floors today. Some 20 to 30 odd years from now, it will be difficult to distinguish these 2 instruments from those made today in terms of "vintage", beyond simply being a different decade...and considering how many have been made, sold and played over those years, it's hard to imagine they would have any significant value in terms of vintage instruments even 50 years from now.

With this said, it should also be acknowledged that there is another term here as well - "vintage styling". For the benefit of the OP and others who may not be well versed with these instruments, it's worth pointing out this distinction. Let's be honest here - contemporary Strats, regardless of pedigree do in fact retain a LARGE degree of vintage style. All Strats share the same basic body shape as those created by Leo himself. An MIM Standard and even the lowly Squier Affinities still use a similar 6 point trem as those infamous instruments from the 50's and 60's. Even Fender uses this term, "vintage" to describe many of the details associated with such instruments. Clearly this does NOT suggest that a 2015 MIM Standard is in any way "vintage", however to this day they do in fact retain a style that very much is.

The point of that little ramble there is simply this; people should use caution with the use of or acceptance of this term "vintage".


Now to return to the instrument in question, I'm simply not seeing a "vintage" Strat here at all. From those 3 pics alone, this is what I'm seeing.....

The body and bridge plate appear to be Mexican, with the saddles, pickups and neck plate clearly swapped out...just because the neck plate says "Corona" don't assume that it actually is, as that's one of the EASIEST things to swap. Such neck plates can be obtained at virtually any Fender dealer and often you can find them for under $10...it takes less than 5 minutes with a Philip's head screwdriver to change a neck plate. I suspect the body could be an older import (ala MIJ), so I would measure the bridge spacing just to be absolutely positive...if it's metric (which I suspect it is) and assuming the other body measurements are consistent (body thickness and such), my opinion is that it's very likely Mexican. I would suggest that the tooling in the neck pocket looks consistent with the MIM bodies from the 90's and the amount of tarnish on the bridge plate and screws would seem to support this, assuming the plate hasn't been faked/relic'd/replaced. Likewise, I suspect the pickguard has probably been swapped as well, although whether it's Fender or aftermarket is impossible to tell (I'd unscrew it and look for extra screw holes in the body..extra screw holes say it's aftermarket). I might be tempted to do a bit more research into that color (sort of looks like pewter to me)...while the paint does have the gloss and other tell tale signs I'd expect from a factory finish, I'm not sure I've ever seen any MIM's in that color, so the body could be from a special run (FSR).

On the body alone, this, in and of itself isn't really a big deal...lot's of people (myself included) mod their Strats. What tells me this is simply a partscaster is the neck...

The 12th fret dot spacing, is too far apart to be either MIM or MIA...along with the 22 frets, as guitarman1984 pointed out, without seeing the headstock or pics of the heel, my best guess would be that the neck is likely from a Squier Standard (could be Indo or CIC, not that it really matters). The neck could be from an off-brand/knock-off or something along those lines (Saga for example), but without more pics/more info, it's impossible to be certain. Either way, the wide dot spacing along with the 22 frets tells me that neck just isn't authentic Fender. As I pointed out earlier, just because it says "Fender" on the headstock, never assume that it actually is...anyone with a decent inkjet printer can fire off their own headstock decals these days.

Based on all of that, my impression is simply that someone sat down with a bunch of parts and built themself a guitar. Doesn't mean it's a bad guitar, it's just NOT genuine Fender, let alone anything specifically vintage.

Now as far as "value" goes, all things considered based on what we've seen in those 3 pics alone, I suspect this guitar probably isn't worth more than $200 or so (USD) tops, depending on how well it plays. This could in fact be a pretty decent guitar. I have nothing against a good partscaster AT ALL and I would expect those Duncan pups to sound pretty sweet, however in terms of how much someone should pay, such an instrument just isn't going to be worth very much money...a stock MIM would command a higher price. As a general rule, Strats don't typically hold their value too well to begin with (regardless of pedigree) and the moment you start mixing and matching bodies and necks, the depreciation becomes SIGNIFICANTLY greater. While I could certainly be wrong (based on lack of info), if someone did in fact pass this off as some kind of vintage instrument (as apposed to vintage styled), I might easily suspect the OP probably got burned.

Without seeing a few more pics, my advice would be this; -if- the OP did in fact spend considerably more on this guitar with the mistaken belief that it was something vintage, unless the seller is willing to provide some Certificate of Authenticity that proves otherwise, I would DEMAND a full refund under thread of fraud and legal action. On the other hand, if the OP only payed a reasonable price consistent with the specific parts on this instrument and the guitar otherwise plays well, then I'd probably keep it and simply enjoy it for what it is...a decent partscaster.


Again just my own $02 worth based on those 3 pics...hope it helps.


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Post subject: Re: Dating my vintage strat.
Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:11 pm
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Hello again.
Ok so I took the neck off to take pics again and mystery solved.
There was a date stamp there that said IC march 2002. Which I'm assuming means made in China on that date.
The pic I posted previously of the#2947 was sent to me by the seller. I never had the neck off myself. The seller refunded my money graciously...
So lesson learned and thanks for all the help.
I'll stick to my congas for a while longer.


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Post subject: Re: Dating my vintage strat.
Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:02 pm
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lomitus wrote:
This is just my own $.02 worth here....



That was more like $.07 worth! :lol:

8)

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Post subject: Re: Dating my vintage strat.
Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:26 am
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Conga vince wrote:
The seller refunded my money graciously...
So lesson learned and thanks for all the help.
I'll stick to my congas for a while longer.


Vince, you got very lucky. There are many unscrupulous people in the musical instrument business who would have taken your money and disappeared.

Fender today does not mean what it meant 30 years ago, when there was only one Fender factory producing only one line of Fender guitars in only one country. Today there are guitars produced under the Fender name made in the USA, Mexico, Japan, Indonesia, Korea, and China. There is a wide range of lines from entry level Squire Strats to $10'000+ Custom Shop Strats.

If you're still interested in owning a Fender Stratocaster (and who isn't?), please do a little research, and save yourself the headaches. Best...o


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Post subject: Re: Dating my vintage strat.
Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:33 am
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Conga vince wrote:
.... The seller refunded my money....


Well that was something of a lucky escape then. I pleased you didn't get stung. Just as well you posted on here.

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