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Post subject: Re: Strat - Art
Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 1:40 pm
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Hyperreality is upon us... !! :shock: :shock:

Good luck with that... :lol: :lol: :lol:

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: Strat - Art
Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 3:41 pm
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Miami Mike wrote:
Great work, John and thanks Mary.

Do you take requests, John?

If so, how about a Strat on the Green Monster wall of Fenway Park. :D


I feel a trip to the land of Google 'cos that has gone way over my head. :(

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Post subject: Re: Strat - Art
Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 11:23 pm
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John Sims wrote:
Miami Mike wrote:
Great work, John and thanks Mary.

Do you take requests, John?

If so, how about a Strat on the Green Monster wall of Fenway Park. :D


I feel a trip to the land of Google 'cos that has gone way over my head. :(


Wow, well I wasn't expecting that.

I tend to avoid sport related satire as people can become more passionate than even religion.

What you are asking for would be a 10 minute job in photoshop, but would probably infringe a dozen different copy rights.

A good one for Fender though:- With my commercial software I can reproduce the shadow characteristics of any location in the world, at any time of day. One could map the shadow of a guitar so that a flat image of the guitar would look as if it were a 3D projection - assuming the image shadow was matched to the time of the game.

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Post subject: Re: Strat - Art
Posted: Wed May 06, 2015 3:28 pm
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John Sims wrote:
John Sims wrote:
Miami Mike wrote:
Great work, John and thanks Mary.

Do you take requests, John?

If so, how about a Strat on the Green Monster wall of Fenway Park. :D


No biggie - just thought I'd ask after seeing their concert schedule:

http://www.fenwayticketking.com/fenway_ ... edule.html

I feel a trip to the land of Google 'cos that has gone way over my head. :(


Wow, well I wasn't expecting that.

I tend to avoid sport related satire as people can become more passionate than even religion.

What you are asking for would be a 10 minute job in photoshop, but would probably infringe a dozen different copy rights.

A good one for Fender though:- With my commercial software I can reproduce the shadow characteristics of any location in the world, at any time of day. One could map the shadow of a guitar so that a flat image of the guitar would look as if it were a 3D projection - assuming the image shadow was matched to the time of the game.

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Post subject: Re: Strat - Art
Posted: Thu May 07, 2015 1:15 am
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CURVES WE LOVE


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Post subject: Re: Strat - Art
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 5:40 am
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John Sims wrote:
John Sims wrote:
Miami Mike wrote:
Great work, John and thanks Mary. Do you take requests, John? If so, how about a Strat on the Green Monster wall of Fenway Park. :D
No biggie - just thought I'd ask after seeing their concert schedule: http://www.fenwayticketking.com/fenway_ ... edule.html
I feel a trip to the land of Google 'cos that has gone way over my head. :(
Wow, well I wasn't expecting that. I tend to avoid sport related satire as people can become more passionate than even religion. What you are asking for would be a 10 minute job in photoshop, but would probably infringe a dozen different copy rights.

A good one for Fender though:- With my commercial software I can reproduce the shadow characteristics of any location in the world, at any time of day. One could map the shadow of a guitar so that a flat image of the guitar would look as if it were a 3D projection - assuming the image shadow was matched to the time of the game.

Great images John...I really enjoyed this thread...Excellent choice of modeling talent too! :D

You're right to avoid controversy and copyright infringement...

Still...the Boston Red Sox' Green Wall is iconic...especially for AL baseball fans...

..but you would have to use the Official YANKEES Strat after last weekend's 3 Game Sweep :lol:

(sorry...but I HAD to...hehehe)

I didn't create the following...but I know what I like:


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Post subject: Re: Strat - Art
Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 1:16 am
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Thank you for your comments.

I am rather liking your choice as well (what's not to like? :-) ). Although I would have perhaps omitted the machine heads and just allow the strings to run into her hair because it currently makes the guitar neck seem too broad and dumpy which grates a bit.

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Post subject: Re: Strat - Art
Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 2:49 am
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"Careful With That Axe Eugene"


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Post subject: Re: Strat - Art
Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 12:26 am
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Red & White

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Post subject: Re: Strat - Art
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:53 pm
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John Sims wrote:
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I especially like this one. Three of my favorite things in one picture! :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Strat - Art
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:04 am
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Thank you Le Max. I appreciate your comments. I am pleased with the way it turned out.

Inevitably with any creation there are things that I see in the image and think "I must redo that and do...." but this one has fewer personal annoyances than some other images.

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Post subject: Re: Strat - Art
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:02 am
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John Sims wrote:
Thank you Le Max. I appreciate your comments. I am pleased with the way it turned out.

Inevitably with any creation there are things that I see in the image and think "I must redo that and do...." but this one has fewer personal annoyances than some other images.


Since you seem to be approaching this from the view point of an artist, I'd like to offer a bit of a critique if I may. Before I do, please know that I mean NO OFFENSE what so ever here...if I didn't appreciate your work, I wouldn't bother commenting on it. As an artist myself (3D or otherwise), I always find that good HONEST (if not brutal), detailed feedback of one's work is the singular best way to improve. If you're easily offended by critiques (many people are), then please let me know and I'll remove this (and obviously don't read this any further).






Ok...over-all I really like your work. There are however 2 things that are really pulling my eye...the lighting and the models (as in characters, not the guitars). I'm not sure what program you're using, but between those two issues, it really looks like either Poser, DAZ or maybe Second Life...while I could be wrong and I'm sure it's possible you modeled the girls yourself, the character models (the girls), just really scream DAZ to me. There's nothing really wrong with that, but they tend to be a bit...ermm...generic. Coming from an Autodesk background myself, particularly Maya, if you are indeed using purchased/premade character models, I tend to find that you can get much better, individualistic characters using something like AD's Character Generator and that they can be defined even further using Mudbox (or a similar program). I've also found that with good lighting, using the AD products can give you MUCH more realistic looking characters than DAZ, Poser, etc.. Which leads me to the lighting...

Over-all, your lighting looks REALLY flat to me. I do like the softness of the shadows (always a pain in rendering), but the lighting really needs some better definition as your images are coming off as rather "high key". Again this really looks like it was done with the consumer level software...most of the programs like DAZ and Poser etc., really have very limited lighting options when compared with Maya, Max, etc. (I've even seen some fantastic lighting work done in Blender). I did a commision last year where I had a total of 81 individual lights in Maya...ya just can't do that in Poser (and yes, the render time was a nightmare! LOL). I will admit that I had a huge advantage when I got into 3D a few years back as I already had some rather extensive background in photography (including studio work), so I already had a very good understanding of lighting, however the simple truth is that with 3D, the lighting will make or break your scene. If you haven't already, I'd honestly suggest reading a couple of books on studio lighting/technniques for photography...I think it could make for a rather significant improvement with your work.

Along with that, I do have a couple of little nit-picky comments as well...mostly the headstocks of the Strats. Ok...ok...I strongly suspect you were trying to avoid any trademark infringements, however ya REALLY need to put some decals on those headstocks! LOL!!! No, I wouldn't use a specific Fender logo, however if you used a font that was close to it and used a name like "Tender" or "Blender" or something of that nature, I think it would have better visual appeal. Also, I could be wrong, but I'd keep an eye on your scaling as well...in one or two of those pics, the ferrules for the tuners look a bit too big.

I do think you have done a wonderful job with most of the textures and particularly the reflections (chrome) and I really like your use of DOF as well, but I would really put some extra effort into that lighting...if you are in fact using DAZ or Poser, I think it may be time to start looking at an upgrade to more professional software. I think my old college professor (and good friend) would look at this and say "it's a very good start...now you need to take it over the top".

Again I mean no offense with ANY of this...just offering some suggestions and experienced opinions more than anything. I do think these images are very good, but I think with better lighting, better character models and a bit more attention to the details, they could be truly sensational.


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Post subject: Re: Strat - Art
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 7:17 am
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John Sims wrote:
Inevitably with any creation there are things that I see in the image and think "I must redo that and do...." .


First of all I have to say that I´m not familiar with any of that 3D computer art. I´m one of the oldschool guys who take a pencil and a paper and I draw what I want. And if I look at your comment above, I have to say "thank god I´m not the only one, who thinks like that about his work" :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Strat - Art
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:41 am
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Hi Lomitus,

I appreciate your comments and , as we we are going into technicalities, you have hit a few nails.

To others, I apologise, as this is going to get a little technical and boring unless you are in to 3D stuff.

I certainly wouldn't presume to consider myself an artist, more of a "I wonder what that would look like" ist. I think I put as much in my first post. So this was really purely for my own amusement and thought others might find some entertainment from them. No point in having a forum if we don't put something on it ;-)

You are right in that the girls came from DAZ. They are a bit stereotypical, but then so is society. DAZ, over the years, has become quite powerful and can generate less generic looking figures, I just didn't see the point in getting too carried away as, to me, the figures aren't that important. I certainly wouldn't bother taking them into Mudbox as I don't think I would gain much. They are a prop, not a character, and the image isn't sufficiently important to warrant the time. I did address some issues in Max on one of the girls as I occasionally use her as an asset elsewhere, but the others were of little importance. As far as other character sources, its tools for the job - I don't need characters I just need human sized figures. DAZ and Poser provide convenient human looking figures so I don't see the point in looking elsewhere for what I need. [edit] That said most DAZ male figures are unusable as they look like He Man and most female characters have to be dialed back 3 cup sizes and chosen carefully to avoid those with excessive botox.

The guitar was actually generated in Inventor (my main tool as I do technical work) and exported to Max. Again it was a hobby project, of personal interest, so only warranted so much time. I certainly wouldn't consider applying a Fender logo (especially on a Fender site) and consider a pseudo logo to look like "Wanted to put a logo but got frightened". I guess I could put on a logo and then pixilate the headstock but that looks as contrived.

Subject to the image I either bought the girl into Max from DAZ or sent the guitar to DAZ as the figure manipulation is much easier in DAZ because it retains the smoothing and morphing weighting. To use a DAZ figure in MAX is only entirely successful as a static obj. Rigged characters are pain as the smoothing doesn't translate well.

In many respects the modelling software is irrelevant at render time and I am surprised you didn't enquire what renderer I used.

I am a little confused by your suggestion that the images look flat and "hi key" as, in my understanding, the latter is very high contast and, as such, wouldn't be flat? Just to confirm, all of the images are as they came out of the renderer with no post work. [edit] Got that wrong - always good to google a term. Funny though in many respects as, for years, we have tried to get more even lighting in renders and spent hours using light sources to fill out areas of dense shadows. Now that the software does it for us you are mouning that the shadows aren't dense enough :wink:

Any road up, all were rendered in IRAY. DAZ had released a beta test version with IRAY and I was one of many wresting with the new renderer in DAZ as it lacked the control I was use to in MAX but, saved taking the figures from DAZ into MAX if I could get it to work. I was pretty much using these images as test subjects. Since the creation of these DAZ, with IRAY, has moved from Beta and offers much greater support - I can get off the shelf IRAY skin shadders without having to generate my own SSS settings which is a big advantage.

Looking back through all of the images all were rendered with IRAY in DAZ (with the exception of Red and White). Illumination was either just HDRI's or the IRAY sunlight/sky dome. As I said they aren't that important so I didn't bother adding additional light sources. The girl and the car is a particular disappointment to me lighting wise because of an idiosyncrasy with one of the DAZ IRAY settings and certainly would have worked better in MAX.

I agree with your comments in respect of photography and have provided a fair amount of studio based commercial product images over the years (and some model work :-) in addition to stage lighting and video. I fail to grasp how some think they can produce custom render illumination without at least some understanding of the subject. Light is a wonderful tool and, perhaps, the ability to manipulate it to your beck and call is one of the strongest justifications of 3D rendering....and after all that I just used HDRis because they are quick and easy, particularly for exterior scenes.

Red and White was rendered with IRAY in 3DS Max 2016 and (I'm pleased to say considering the cost) to my mind demonstrates your point entirely - there is a difference between consumer and pro software. This just used the standard multiple light source studio - again I didn't see the point in doing anything more considering what it is. As this was done in MAX I had to do all of the SSS work myself and consider it OK rather than exceptional. And despite my comment above regarding Mudbox I did do some reworking on the skirt in MAX as it didn't lie right in DAZ. (There is a actually a rogue vertex which I must have caught when manipulating the scene and didn't notice until after the render). I have revisited the girl asset which I xrefed in (as I didn't bother keeping the scene file) and it isn't there, so it was obviously just a catch. If I had done any post work I could have fixed it but the image isn't that important.

We can all get quite snobby about software (as we might with guitars or any other tool). But much is down to what you do with what ever you have at your disposal. There are images in the DAZ gallery (created by proper artists, which I am not) that are breathtakingly good, and I would defy anyone to better no matter what software they have at their disposal. DAZ can't do many things but (as can be seen by others images) it can be very good doing what it is designed to do. It can also produce some unadulterated dross which, I hope, I have at least exceeded.

Because my work is technical MAX works for me because I want as close to accurate a representation as efficiently as possible. It isn't art, as my Clients aren't paying for art, but just has to demonstrate what ever it is I am employed to communicate as effectively as possible.


What is art? I would sometimes suggest it is merely how good your are at conning people that an image communicates more than just what the image shows. 3D "Art" is perhaps more akin to the oil paintings and portraits of the masters old, where they are judged for their accuracy of execution as much as their composition or any emotion they may generate.

Perhaps, in that respect, I am looking at the above images as art insofar as; while I can produce renders which would be difficult to differentiate as anything other than real I didn't bother to spend the time in doing so as I was only really interested in the composition.

......and, like art, I can string together vast swathes of BS over something of little consequence. :wink:

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Last edited by John Sims on Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Strat - Art
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:19 am
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I don't know a durn thing about 3D art...but these snippets stood out...I've crossed out the company name for potential legal issues:

John Sims wrote:
Hi Lomitus,...You are right in that the girls came from XXX...They are a bit stereotypical, but then so is society.... XXX, over the years, has become quite powerful ...one of the girls as I occasionally use her...I either bought the girl... :wink:


Like I say...I don't know about 3D Art...but that sounds more like Human Trafficking to me! :shock:

:lol: :lol: :lol: you may return to your normally scheduled programming :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sometimes it's not what you say...but how you say it...Chris Farley said it best...



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