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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:21 pm
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The problem with this kind of thread is the term "better", or "good".

What is better for YOU may bot be better for ME.

So, is an American Strat better than a Mexican? And where does the Squier stand? There's no right answer for that question, because the whole question is wrong.

The right question is: which one sounds and feels better for your hands and ears?

I currently have two strats. A 2013 American Standard (a Fender flagship, according to FMIC's own website, therefore) and a latin one. Both equipped with Fat 50s. Both are great players and sound good to me.

Many players like Terje Rypdal played Squier or MiMs. What does that mean? Absolutely nothing. They like those guitars. Period.

About pickups, some are brighter, some are fatter, some are snappier, some are muddier. Which ones are better? It depends on what you want them for.

The thing is, if you're comfortable with the neck and frets, then the guitar is ok for you, no matter where it was made. If the pickups sound good for what you want to play, then they're just fine.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:58 pm
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The thread was a question therefore it relates to the persons perspective.

PUPs are no more relevant than comparing cars based on what tyres they have. Both are consumables.

I have an old MIA, new MIA and a new MIM. I would buy another MIA in a blink. I won't buy another MIM.

The MIAs are great as they stand. I appreciate that MiMs are cheap but, once you have changed all the bits that I want to change it comes close to the cost of a MIA but still isn't the same as a MIA and is still a MIM and only worth as much as a MIM.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:25 pm
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rofl tyres?

You actually think pickups matter so little to the sound of a solid electric guitar such as a strat?

If guitars were cars, pickups would be, to say the least, the pistons, my friend.

I have both American and other Fenders, including one of each with fat 50s, and I tell you, you gotta make quite an effort to tell the difference if you're not seeing which one I'm playing.

Guitars are electric instruments, and stratocasters have the pickups mounted on a plastic pickguard and a floating bridge, my man. They're probably the solid guitars with less wood interference in the sound.

I'd say pickups and good electronics/wiring are pretty much 70% of a stratocaster. The wood does matter, but not as much as people tend to think. That's my experience.

All in all, like I said: there's not a right answer to the question, because what is better for you may not be better for me. Guitars are musical instruments, and they all sound their own way. We choose what suits our ears and our music.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:15 pm
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Yup tyres - because if you don't like them you can change them.

Because of this the sound of the PUPS is a complete irrelevance as you can change them "my friend". Although, on a MIA you might not need to.

What you can't change is ultimately how the guitar feels to you when you play it, (once set up optimally). If you can't tell the difference between playing your MIA and your MIM then perhaps you wasted your money buying a MIA and might even have been better going for a Squire and swapping the PUPS on that.

What you can't change is the value of the guitar.

For me a MiM has too many annoyances that I would want to change and the end result would/has cost close to a MIA but wouldn't/isn't worth the same as an equivalent MIA.

Why did I buy a MIM then? Because I liked the idea that a MiM could be comparable to a MIA. I am now pondering a neck change ... so I failed, as pretty much all that would remain of the original is the body.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:30 pm
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Lol complete irrelevance? I disagree...

so, you are basically saying YOU don't like the feel of non-American guitars (which are a pretty good range. Have you tried a deluxe?). You see, there's a wide range of neck profiles among both American and Mexican Fenders... Judging by what you say, I'd guess you bought a MIM without knowing what model it was first off...

If you actually think there's such a huge sound quality difference between MiA and MiM with the same electronics, wiring and pickups... God bless you then :) I can't tell, and neither can my bandmates, friends or my public... There's certainly a difference, but very slight, and it's about tone, not quality of the sound.

I'm not saying MiAs are bad, on the contrary. I own oneand it's probably the best guitar I've ever laid my hands on. Definitely a gem. But truth is, Fender does a good job in Mexico and Asia, too.

I don't think I've wasted my money at all, either on the MiA or the cheaper one... They are different guitars, with different playabilities, and both sound good to me, as a band player.

I wonder, though, if you actually took the time to listen to your guitars properly... But that's to you.

Seriously, listen to what Terje Rypdal does with a Squier... And they're making some GOOD Squiers today.

Anyway, perhaps you're chasing a myth. Maybe not. It's personal :)

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:50 am
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Did you go to condescension classes or is it something that just comes naturally?

I was entirely clear which model MiM I was buying.

I haven't said that there is a difference in sound between two comparable guitars with the same electrics. I have never said there is an issue with the sound of a MIM - because you can change the PUPs.

Obviously few have the gift of your very special ears as you suggest, in a blind listen, only you can hear the difference between your MIM and your MIA.

However. "I own oneand it's probably the best guitar I've ever laid my hands on." You have two guitars with identical electrics (which sound identical to everyone unless they have special ears) and, in summary, your conclusion to the original question is YES.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:44 am
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My answer is quite obviously NO.

The fact that my MiA is an outstanding guitar does NOT mean my other one ain't. And I was saying that no one notices a QUALITY difference in how the two guitars sound, although there is a tone difference, which is obvious, as the two guitars aren't the same. Understand it not. Like it or not. There are very good MiM and Asian strats around.

Thing is, YOU don't like them. That's YOUR problem... Or YOUR own way. If YOU don't like the MiMs, don't play them. Many people will. That's exactly what I said in the first place.

:lol:

And in the end of the day, we're all happy.

I won't even bother continuing this useless discussion, it's about personal taste, not "better" or anything.

This is a Squier. I don't think anyone in this concert or the many others this gentleman played ever complained about what's written on the headstock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpp7-l_S8GE

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:58 am
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de Melo wrote:
This is a Squier. I don't think anyone in this concert or the many others this gentleman played ever complained about what's written on the headstock:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpp7-l_S8GE


That was 21 years ago. Perhaps he had a promotional deal. In more recent vids he seems to be playing MiA's.

So of your two Strats you have concluded your MiA is the better guitar -"the best guitar I've ever laid my hands on" was your description (which is pretty damn good for an American Standard). Of my Strats, and others I have played, I have concluded, for what ever reasons, I prefer the MiA's over the MiM's.

There would seem to be a pattern developing here.

Nobody is suggesting MiM's are bad guitars and, to the most part, they provide great value for money.

Myth or not Fender couldn't sustain the cost differential between MiM's and MiA's if there wasn't a tangible difference.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 12:10 pm
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You know, if a MIM guitar was used by some guy who is getting some attention now, gets reaaally famous maybe 5years from now, I bet that MIM would sell way more than most MIA's. I think a lot of people assume they are a big thing in the music scene and dream that their MIA's will actually go up in value or have better resale. Resale depends on a lot of things, not just because it was MIA.

It's also not the guitar, its the guitarist! Any good player can make a MIM sound superior than a crappy player on a MIA.


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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 7:37 am
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miroman86 wrote:
You know, if a MIM guitar was used by some guy who is getting some attention now, gets reaaally famous maybe 5years from now, I bet that MIM would sell way more than most MIA's. I think a lot of people assume they are a big thing in the music scene and dream that their MIA's will actually go up in value or have better resale. Resale depends on a lot of things, not just because it was MIA.

It's also not the guitar, its the guitarist! Any good player can make a MIM sound superior than a crappy player on a MIA.


Dude! Welcome to the forum. And of all the threads you chose to post on this one? :roll: :wink:

I think as anyone progresses in any profession they endeavour to have the best tools available to do the best job they can. If it is a tool that you rely on for your livelihood you want absolute confidence in it.

In five years I think their Strat of choice is more likely to be an MIA ....But who knows.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:44 pm
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Doesnt Jimmie Vaughan still use MIM?


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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:07 am
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atoltleter wrote:
Doesnt Jimmie Vaughan still use MIM?


Yes. But then if the artist himself didn't use his own Fender signature model that wouldn't be much of an endorsement.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:42 am
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John Sims wrote:
I think as anyone progresses in any profession they endeavour to have the best tools available to do the best job they can. If it is a tool that you rely on for your livelihood you want absolute confidence in it.

Not always true. Jack White has been talking a lot about how he likes to "struggle" with the instrument.
Players in many genres (punk, surf, indie...) certainly don't seem to choose their instruments on that "best tool available - absolute confidence" basis.
And there are a lot of players who have their "Number One" vintage instrument, which really can't qualitywise be compared to brand new Custom Shop models, and which is kept playable by constant luthierism that resembles a daily heart transplant surgery...

John Sims wrote:
if the artist himself didn't use his own Fender signature model that wouldn't be much of an endorsement.

Hmm. I'll give you some slack by disregarding the signature models where the original is an original vintage, and the artist model a new copy of it.
But, some guitarists (like J5) have both MIA and MIE(lsewhere) signature models, even as far as Fender/Squier. Are they allowed to choose which to have onstage? And what about studio?
Or, does the Squier signature suddenly become less a guitar when J.Mascis picks up his Fender to play?
:mrgreen:

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American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts?

My thoughts: better for what?


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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:28 am
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jmattis wrote:

Jack White has been talking a lot about how he likes to "struggle" with the instrument.


Indeed. But he is a little off the wall. :wink:

Quote:

And there are a lot of players who have their "Number One" vintage instrument, which really can't qualitywise be compared to brand new Custom Shop models, and which is kept playable by constant luthierism that resembles a daily heart transplant surgery...



Absolutely. I am sure we all have favourite instruments that we pick up, through choice, over and above any other. Probability is this wasn't your first guitar though and was perhaps something you aspired to in the first instance. I have read various instances where artists with signature copy guitars will use the copies if concerned that the original may be at risk - too valuable to transport etc.

Quote:
But, some guitarists (like J5) have both MIA and MIE(lsewhere) signature models, even as far as Fender/Squier. Are they allowed to choose which to have onstage? And what about studio?
Or, does the Squier signature suddenly become less a guitar when J.Mascis picks up his Fender to play?
:mrgreen:


I have no idea what the contractual implications are of signature models. I assume the artist is paid a royalty, but I don't know if he/she is obliged to use "their" instrument. I would doubt it but; they aren't doing much to promote the product they may be paid royalties on if they don't. That would be a bit like releasing a single and then not playing it. Similarly, if you are involved in developing a Signature guitar one assumes you will have some level of emotional attachment to the guitar - in specification at least.


"in specification at least." perhaps raises another point. Of two guitars, of identical specification, I would anticipate most people would have a favourite of the two. Guitars are very intimate instruments which we develop a bond with. I really want my MIM to be great. I have changed, and am changing, bits on it even now so have that personal association that I don't have with my MIA's which are as they left the factory. But I still don't have the same bond with my MIM as my MIA's.

Perhaps it comes down to value in so far as because the MIM was cheaper it doesn't have the same emotional investment?


Quote:
... better for what?


I don't know. It's a conversation. What do you think?

MIM's are certainly better if you want to build a collection of different guitars because there are so many variations and they are generally cheaper so you can buy more of them.

MIAs are the safe choice. So, if you want to be a bit "Out there", live on the edge, take a risk, or indeed gig in situations where you and/or your instrument may be at risk then a MIM would perhaps be a good choice - because they are cheap.

"Cheap" as in good value not "cheap and nasty".

But, for me, so far I haven't fund that spark that I have with MIA's. I am willing to keep trying, with my current stable, at least.

MiM's are great as "try out" guitars. I have a fancy for a V neck, but because that is somewhat different to what I am use to I would perhaps consider a MIM in that spec as a first try.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:16 am
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Hmm.. Speaking of V necks... Just bought an MIM FSE standard with a soft V neck. I compared this guitar too many of the others which were MIA. This one felt the best, but so did the 60's and 50's MIM's.
Point is that Fender has successfully introduced a lower price point guitar that is very close to their more expensive MIA's.

Correctly setup ( by me for my preference ) pickup selection aside, I cannot distinguish a difference if any.
As I build my own guitars, I have a pretty good idea of what I'm seeking.

Now the original design by Leo Fender of the Telecaster and Stratocaster was of an instrument that was user friendly. In other words, each and every part of the instrument could be easily replaced and most of the hardware is available at hardware suppliers. For all the screws, you just have to know the thread size and pitch, diameter. Everything else other than the body and neck is made by an outside supplier.

I think in these discussions / debates, we tend to forget that we are discussing musical instruments for players of various abilities and resources...
For instance I'll ask my Strat to play single handed sailor, than RR hootchie coo, from there step into a fingerpicking instrumental than up to Miss Judy or into Savanah Woman...
If you know the tunes ( except for the instrumental which is my own composition ) then it is obvious that for me versatility is the primary factor.

Since the 70's, the only guitar I have not altered / upgraded in components was my Custom Shop 56 NOS Stratocaster. Even my late 50's LPC was a tuner upgrade...

Some MIM"s are indeed better than some MIA's but the reverse is also true...

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