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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 8:49 pm
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I think there is four pages here because no one posts here anymore and this is really the only interaction happening here.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 2:04 am
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John Sims wrote:
After 4 pages you still don't understand the difference between mass production and small batch/individual guitar production?


No. :)

Referring to your previous post though - determining a premium wood or selecting a wood (bearing in mind, it is only Alder we are talking about- not a premium wood) doesn't really contribute to price the way you may think. Ill put it this way- anyone with wood knowledge can identify a good piece to a bad piece of Alder (consistent grain, colour, knots etc..). You know- is it suitable for a clear/sunburst or a solid colour?.. that is just sorting from a pile or a batch. If Fender have a supplier (I don't know if they do or not) most of this work is already done for them before it may hit the factory- or if not, within. But I'll put money on the fact that this is done in-house to cut costs down.

Selecting for 'its tone'- still doesn't quite add to the price. Down here, an American Standard can be had for $2399rrp and an American Deluxe for $3499rrp. Thats an $1100 difference. For the difference, I see a compound radius (+$100), different pickups (customshop fat 50's -$370 N3 +$350) locking tuners (standard -$90 locking +$120) and different wiring (+- $0). Im left with $110, thats not including other upgrades etc yet those can also be neglible.
The rest of the significant amounts I assume is in wood selection- we have $990 left over.. so we get a darker piece of rosewood- (Ill add $40-$50 for that) and like I said we are only dealing with Alder here.. butchers block material at worst, coffee table or electric guitar at best. for the residual difference, I could source a premium piece of mahogany or figured Kauri that came from a tree that was seedling when Jesus was alive. Not wanting to discredit though- Fender will use what they want to use and they will charge what they want to charge. But to me, I just can't justify it at all.

I could be a little hypocritical here though- I actually have an american deluxe, a strat plus and a Strat Ultra. Ive previously owned 2 MIM strats and I own a MIJ Charvel San Dimas which essentially is still a Fender strat with significant mods thats made within the fender brand family. Add to that a Squire Tele too. Never owned an American standard- never had the desire to. I do like them though.

But I don't mind paying full retail for a brand new MIM strat or upwards in their deluxe line ($999+rrp) but for anything over MIM I won't. I'll either buy from another country where the exchange rate favours (like Japan) or I'll buy it used and let someone else take the depreciation hit. The great thing is, generally at this price bracket people tend to look after their stuff quite well so there's always a good deal to be had on the used market. Even on Customshop instruments. For what a new American Deluxe goes for, I can get a custom deluxe used for the same money thats about 18months or 2 years old in good condition.

So to me all of the tone or what makes them better or worse comes down to the individual who plays them and even then its very subjective as we all have different tastes.. but if the price wasn't an issue, we'd probably want the best we could get. But Fender are a corporation who are clever marketers. They have to make money somewhere.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:41 am
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May seem like a dumb question, but are there any MIM strats with MIA bridge string spacing?


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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:11 am
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ckmckool wrote:
May seem like a dumb question, but are there any MIM strats with MIA bridge string spacing?


The Classic Series Strats ('50s, '60s, '70s) and some of the MIM signature models use the vintage-spec 6-screw bridge with 2-7/32" string spacing.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:35 am
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Is there any demonstrated (actual) differences in quality (hardness) between MIM and MIA fretwire?
thanks


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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:58 am
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ckmckool wrote:
Is there any demonstrated (actual) differences in quality (hardness) between MIM and MIA fretwire?
thanks


I have a MiM Strat from around '94.
I have a USA Strat Deluxe from 2011/12.
The frets on the MiM are in fair condition.
The frets on the Strat Deluxe also show signs of wear.

I think Fender gets its fret wire from one source and uses it in both factories.

I do wish that Fender would take a look at PRS and provide really tough frets as PRS do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzKT8WrZhhc


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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:57 pm
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CAFeathers wrote:
The BEST Strat I have ever owned was a Made in Korea Squire Strat in the most hideous Purple color. And that was years ago.
Have you checked out the Squire guitars that are being made now days? They are quite decent guitars.


Got a Squier last week!. Last guitar purchase before that was an American Martin last month. Last purchase before that was a MIA Strat last year. The Squier isn't bad! Bought it for a mod project and was going to replace the neck but really can't find fault with it. Never did like the look of a rosewood neck on a black Strat and might still swap out for one in maple or ebony but the Squier neck plays surprisingly well. The tuners are definitely going to be replaced though. Even after taking the strings off I almost need pliers to turn them and oiling them doesn't seem to be helping.

When I get done with it I'm sure it will get more playing time than my MIA but my MIMs will always get played more than any except my custom made for me Tele.


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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:42 am
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I am sure a lot of it comes down to familiarity. I would play my MiM a lot as it was my late night blues lounge guitar (there is nothing on TV these days). I really rather liked it.

I have now moved the MiM to my second home so only get to play it every few weeks. This time I picked it up and didn't quite think "What the hell is this!?" but there certainly wasn't the instant connection I have with my MIA's, no matter how long the gap between playing them.

While the (made from plastic carrier bags) MiM scratch plate has achieved an interesting distressed look through scratching, the way it distorts around the screws annoys me more - It's got to go. And even though I have measured and remeasured the nut width compared to my MIA's the neck seems just that tad too narrow even though measurement says it is the same.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:30 am
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John Sims wrote:
I don't have much experience in this field as I only have one MIM and two American Strats. I have played a number of MIMS however which have varied from pretty damn good to pretty horrible.

My MIM was nicer than I expected (it is an FSR, so has perhaps had a little more attention payed to it) and I have now fitted a number of American components. It is a very nice guitar, but it still isn't the same as an American and I don't know why.



What is the magic ingredient which makes an American Strat better? One would hope it is something as why else do we pay more?


Simples, you will sell easier and get a better resale price for a U.S.A. Strat, regardless of which plays better, a strange but true fact.


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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:37 pm
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John Sims wrote:
I am sure a lot of it comes down to familiarity. I would play my MiM a lot as it was my late night blues lounge guitar (there is nothing on TV these days). I really rather liked it.

I have now moved the MiM to my second home so only get to play it every few weeks. This time I picked it up and didn't quite think "What the hell is this!?" but there certainly wasn't the instant connection I have with my MIA's, no matter how long the gap between playing them.

While the (made from plastic carrier bags) MiM scratch plate has achieved an interesting distressed look through scratching, the way it distorts around the screws annoys me more - It's got to go. And even though I have measured and remeasured the nut width compared to my MIA's the neck seems just that tad too narrow even though measurement says it is the same.

When I got my MIA I took it out of the case and put my favorite MIM in. I played the heck out of that MIA for about a month. Played a little acoustic guitar and some bass but didn't touch my MIM Strats or Teles. Couldn't connect with it and when I played my MIM again it was like reuniting with a long lost friend. The MIA went back in the case.


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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:25 pm
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Simples, you will sell easier and get a better resale price for a U.S.A. Strat, regardless of which plays better, a strange but true fact.


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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 8:46 pm
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kilgore wrote:
Simples, you will sell easier and get a better resale price for a U.S.A. Strat, regardless of which plays better, a strange but true fact.


Not really considering MiA's are more expensive in the first place. A top end MiM will perhaps depreciate more than a cheap MiA but otherwise I don't think the resale difference is that significant compared to original price.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:01 pm
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Yes, it is a significant difference. A used Mex Std Strat will typically sell for roughly 50% of it's original cost, while the used Am Std will typically sell for 70% to 80% of it's original cost, and much more depending on year made. Some Am guitars even sell for much more than their original cost, which is not going to happen with a MIM, except maybe some special Ann model.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:03 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Yes, it is a significant difference. A used Mex Std Strat will typically sell for roughly 50% of it's original cost, while the used Am Std will typically sell for 70% to 80% of it's original cost, and much more depending on year made. Some Am guitars even sell for much more than their original cost, which is not going to happen with a MIM, except maybe some special Ann model.

A few years ago I bought a Special Run Squier Tele and last month the same store had another just like it for twice the price. Both used but in same like new condition. Don't know what the price was when it was new, but couldn't have been much more.


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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:29 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Yes, it is a significant difference. A used Mex Std Strat will typically sell for roughly 50% of it's original cost, while the used Am Std will typically sell for 70% to 80% of it's original cost, and much more depending on year made. Some Am guitars even sell for much more than their original cost, which is not going to happen with a MIM, except maybe some special Ann model.


Indeed. But a drop of 50% on an original price of "not much" may be less than 20% off "quite a lot". It is all relative. I agree that generally you wouldn't consider a MiM as a long term investment or as safe as a MiA

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