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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 4:20 pm
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donnycraven wrote:
I will never buy a Mexican Strat myself. I couldnt even believe it the first time I heard they were made there too. I think I laughed, but I must admit they are getting better. I have two American Standards and a Highway 1 and I have not found a Mexican Strat new or old that even comes close to those things they are just amazing guitars. Belong right next to my Gibson Les Pauls and Marshall Stacks. Rock And Roll Champions.


My American Strat stays right next to my Les Paul too - both stay in their cases in the closet or basement. I really did think and hope that I would eventually prefer it to my Mexicans but the more I played it the more I realized that I never would. Not that I would consider getting rid of it or the Les Paul either one. My Roadhouse with Texas Specials sounds better for Blues and my Mexi Tele sounds better for Country, although the MIA does sound better for Classic Rock and I drag it out a lot more than the Les Paul.


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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 4:34 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
donnycraven wrote:
Yes to me the Made in USA ones are the real ones just like the made in Britain Marshalls are the real thing.


You flag-wavers crack me up!

If the country-of-origin of all the constituent materials and parts in a so-called "made in America" Stratocaster were ever made public, you "patriots" would likely be grabbing your pitchforks and heading to Scottsdale to re-enact the Salem Witch Trials with FMIC's owners.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Arjay



Actually I know where most of the parts are made. The CTS pots are Taiwan the Ping Machine heads are also Taiwan. The PVC wire is China, The 5 Way Switch is Mexico the etc etc. Not much to do with Flag waiving as I said the Marshall is British. The Flagship product line is always going to be held to the better quality. I buy Boss as well they are Japan. Its an international world at this point and Made in USA is not always the best. But in the case of USA Fender Strats, USA Gibson Les Pauls and USA Seymour Duncan pickups, Those are the best money can buy in my book. I really dont think they make anything better than Gibsons Fenders Marshalls and Seymour Duncans. We just lucked out and got three out of four there.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 4:42 pm
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fenderfan wrote:
donnycraven wrote:
I will never buy a Mexican Strat myself. I couldnt even believe it the first time I heard they were made there too. I think I laughed, but I must admit they are getting better. I have two American Standards and a Highway 1 and I have not found a Mexican Strat new or old that even comes close to those things they are just amazing guitars. Belong right next to my Gibson Les Pauls and Marshall Stacks. Rock And Roll Champions.


My American Strat stays right next to my Les Paul too - both stay in their cases in the closet or basement. I really did think and hope that I would eventually prefer it to my Mexicans but the more I played it the more I realized that I never would. Not that I would consider getting rid of it or the Les Paul either one. My Roadhouse with Texas Specials sounds better for Blues and my Mexi Tele sounds better for Country, although the MIA does sound better for Classic Rock and I drag it out a lot more than the Les Paul.


Right on glad you like your purchase thats always a bonus. I dont keep mine in the closet or basement much Im usually running home from work then running to the next rehearsal or gig. Here is my next show.

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Im in the Skynyrd tribute but actually I have 2 shows before that as Fred Nugent.
So mine get a lot of use. As I said there are plenty who play beside me that use Mexi Fender and Epi Pauls. Its not a big deal. They sound just fine.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Wed May 06, 2015 1:07 am
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Considering a good percentage of the sound of a Strat is PUP related I don't think you can judge one against the other relative to sound ... unless two completely off the shelf guitars. But then, as already noted, MIMs seem to often get modified.

Obviously the main selling point of a MIM is they are cheap. Being cheap they are considered less precious, and more of a blank canvass for changes. There is certainly less guilt in stripping out a set of £30 PUPS to replace them with a £110 set than doing the same with an original set valued at a £100.

This was certainly part of the justification in my MIM purchase in that I rather fancied having a guitar I could mod. And, the resulting spec guitar was cheaper than a comparable MIA. But it isn't "special".

Perhaps it is the same getting a Shopping spec car and putting all the top of the range parts on it. The top of the range and the modified shopping spec may be identical but the shopping spec will still be a shopping spec at it's heart.

Paying £1200 for a guitar makes it special to you because you decided you wanted to pay £1200 for it. If you then bought an identical spec guitar for £600 it wouldn't be as special as the £1200 one, even if they are identical in everything but serial number.

Because we choose to pay more for a MIA they will always be more special than a MIM, no matter how good the MIM is.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Wed May 06, 2015 1:24 am
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John Sims wrote:

... Because we choose to pay more for a MIA they will always be more special than a MIM, no matter how good the MIM is.


This is all peachy but then (from my local GC web site):-

Fender Genuine Mexican Medium Jumbo Maple Stratocaster Neck 099-4602-921 RRP £300.00

Fender Genuine American Medium Jumbo Maple Stratocaster Neck 099-3002-921 RRP £600.00


Special or not, that really messes with my head.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Wed May 06, 2015 2:42 am
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John Sims wrote:
Fender Genuine Mexican Medium Jumbo Maple Stratocaster Neck 099-4602-921 RRP £300.00

Fender Genuine American Medium Jumbo Maple Stratocaster Neck 099-3002-921 RRP £600.00


Special or not, that really messes with my head.


The "mojo" provided by the Made-In-America headstock decal should easily be worth the additional three hundred quid.

:lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Wed May 06, 2015 3:22 am
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Buy what you want or can afford if your happy it's all good :)

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Wed May 06, 2015 5:14 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
John Sims wrote:
Fender Genuine Mexican Medium Jumbo Maple Stratocaster Neck 099-4602-921 RRP £300.00

Fender Genuine American Medium Jumbo Maple Stratocaster Neck 099-3002-921 RRP £600.00


Special or not, that really messes with my head.




The "mojo" provided by the Made-In-America headstock decal should easily be worth the additional three hundred quid.

:lol:

Arjay


LOL

Granted both are available significantly discounted but the whole strategy behind the two RRP's does stink somewhat.

In fairness I didn't check if one was a 21 and one a 22 fret, which certainly would be worth more. :oops:

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Wed May 06, 2015 5:55 am
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These threads kill me lol. What they really say is... What do you think of my guitar is it as good as yours? The answer is no. It will never be as good as mine, because mine is the best.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Wed May 06, 2015 4:30 pm
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The BEST Strat I have ever owned was a Made in Korea Squire Strat in the most hideous Purple color. And that was years ago.
Have you checked out the Squire guitars that are being made now days? They are quite decent guitars.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Thu May 07, 2015 6:09 am
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I think one of the coolest things about 1976 was Ibanez Strats and Les Pauls still said Ibanez on the peg head, not Fender and Epiphone.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Thu May 07, 2015 8:54 am
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donnycraven wrote:
I think one of the coolest things about 1976 was Ibanez Strats and Les Pauls still said Ibanez on the peg head, not Fender and Epiphone.


I wonder how many have subsequently been pimped with knock off Fender and Gibson stickers. :evil:

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Thu May 07, 2015 10:29 am
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John Sims wrote:
donnycraven wrote:
I think one of the coolest things about 1976 was Ibanez Strats and Les Pauls still said Ibanez on the peg head, not Fender and Epiphone.


I wonder how many have subsequently been pimped with knock off Fender and Gibson stickers. :evil:



Well pretty much all the Japan and Korean and Indonesia fenders and epiphones Orville etc are contract manufactured in Ibanez plants. The China epiphones were made in their plant but I believe that plant closed and they went back to having Ibanez make them in Indonesia again.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 4:08 pm
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lomitus wrote:
donnycraven wrote:
The most magical part is better pickups. Then its better hardware.


I've seen such comments suggested a great number of times in defense of American Strats (or those cracking on MIM's), so let's examine this just a bit....

Hardware - In regards to "Standards" (MIM vs. MIA), do both of these models not use the exact same tuners, pickguards, jack plates and screws? Are people really supposed to believe those exact same Schaller tuners are somehow "better" just because they're on an MIA instead of an MIM? REALLY?? Sure the MIA uses those stainless saddles on the bridges, but considering Strats have used the bent steel saddles since their inception, like my comments about the truss rods, they seem to work just fine and have for MANY years....to me those seem more like gimmicks to jack up the price compared with any sense of "better". My '87 MIJ has those bent steel saddles, a 6 point trem and a traditional truss rod and at 28 years old, they seem to work very well indeed. Seems to me that in this regard the MIA is just "different" and not specifically "better".

Let's examine pickups... When it comes to pickups, I will admit that I'm a bit bias...I don't typically care for either (MIM -or- MIA). The best sounding Strats I've ever played REGARDLESS OF ORIGIN have had EMG's or Duncans (with the singular best two Strats being mid 80's MIJ's both with EMGs). Every "modern" MIA (meaning American Standards built since the late 80's) has always sounded rather dull and lifeless to me with those stock pickups...and I've played quite a few over the years. I do like some of the genuine vintage Fender pickups I've heard over the years and I've even found one or two MIM's that have reasonable sounding pickups (not often, but there have been a couple), however I have yet to play a stock MIA that actually "sounds like a Strat". Certainly they are "different" when compared with an MIM, but better? Hardly. With the pickups, such a comment is totally subjective AT BEST....lots of people swap out those MIA pickups just like folks do with MIM's.

Even when it comes to trem blocks...yea...ok...those MIM trem blocks typically suck (especially the older MIM blocks). Again however, I'm not terribly fond of those "copper infused" blocks you find on MIA's...and they certainly don't compare with the blocks found on genuine vintage instruments. In either case (MIM or MIA), give me a good quality, full sized steel block ANY day. For the difference in the cost of an MIM vs. an MIA, I can easily get a GF solid steel block for around $22 that does the job quite well and even a Callaham block only costs $70 - which blows an MIA block right out of the water.

What's more is that if I want new pickups, a better trem block and hell...even better saddles, I can easily upgrade such items on an MIM at a SUBSTANTIALLY LOWER COST than buying an MIA. So when it comes to hardware, what exactly is better about the MIA when compared with the MIM, let alone THAT much better to really justify the cost?? For those who keep trying to insist that MIA's have "better" hardware, you really should leave your preconceptions and American pride at the door, do a closer comparison and be HONEST about it...the difference just isn't that extraordinary at all.

My own personal preferences aside for the moment (such as my dislike of those 2 point trems), my singular biggest issue with MIA's has always been price. Let's compare here... For that $1300 you pay for a new MIA Standard, lets see what we can get;

MIM Standard - $500
Seymour Duncan California '50s Strat Pickup Set - $140
Callaham trem block - $70
GF Roller T's - $5

Those are the essential upgrades I'd likely do on a new MIM Standard. So far that's only $715 - a difference of $585, so let's add a few more things since the following items are also considered as being in favor of MIA's...

Hardshell case - $50
Strap $10
Cable - $10
Picks and polishing cloth - $5
Trip to luthier to have the fretboard "hand rolled" - $100

We're STILL only up to $900...a $300 price difference compared with an MIA!!! Ya really wanna tell me that bi flex truss rod is somehow worth an extra $300 when the warranty is the same either way? Is some idiotic sense of American pride REALLY worth $300?? And I'm even going a bit over-board on value here assuming some rather premium prices...we could knock $50 of the trem block and go with a GF block instead and I've certainly gotten good quality cables for around $5 each. In fact my tweed Strat case only cost $42 brand new, free shipping, delivered to my door..and since I already have cases, straps and such anyways, those aren't really even "necessities". We could easily knock another $120 off there making the price difference well over $400 for a guitar that plays just as well and sounds BETTER than the average off the shelf MIA!!! And when you consider personal taste and the fact that I'd have to change the pickups and bridge on an MIA right off the bat and have no need of a hand rolled fretboard, that price difference becomes even greater still............

I've never said that MIA's are "bad" guitars, but even in the best circumstances, I just can NOT rationalize that kind of price difference just because one says "Made in USA". When you factor in personal choice, such as my distaste for those bridges and pickups on an MIA...yikes, I say...YIKES! ALL things considered, am I really supposed to pay well over $500 or more just so I can have that silly sticker on the headstock? Aren't there better ways that money can be spent other than some lame-ass sense of nationalistic pride? That just does NOT make sense to me (and I hope it NEVER does...).


I'll stick with my MIM's -any- day.


^^^ This is exactly the way I see it. I know that the price difference between the two cannot be justified however when you do the same excersise with american deluxe and custom shop then you really start to think about it...

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Fri May 08, 2015 5:08 pm
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After 4 pages you still don't understand the difference between mass production and small batch/individual guitar production?

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