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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 6:39 am
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Micro-Tilt neck adjustment and rolled edge fretboards, for starters.

Sure, I have a couple of Mexi-made Fenders I really love, but the USA-made Strats and Teles I have, have a better feel - probably because they can be set up more accurately with the Micro-Tilt and have the rolled edge fretboards ... IMHO.


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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 8:55 am
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donnycraven wrote:
The most magical part is better pickups. Then its better hardware.


I've seen such comments suggested a great number of times in defense of American Strats (or those cracking on MIM's), so let's examine this just a bit....

Hardware - In regards to "Standards" (MIM vs. MIA), do both of these models not use the exact same tuners, pickguards, jack plates and screws? Are people really supposed to believe those exact same Schaller tuners are somehow "better" just because they're on an MIA instead of an MIM? REALLY?? Sure the MIA uses those stainless saddles on the bridges, but considering Strats have used the bent steel saddles since their inception, like my comments about the truss rods, they seem to work just fine and have for MANY years....to me those seem more like gimmicks to jack up the price compared with any sense of "better". My '87 MIJ has those bent steel saddles, a 6 point trem and a traditional truss rod and at 28 years old, they seem to work very well indeed. Seems to me that in this regard the MIA is just "different" and not specifically "better".

Let's examine pickups... When it comes to pickups, I will admit that I'm a bit bias...I don't typically care for either (MIM -or- MIA). The best sounding Strats I've ever played REGARDLESS OF ORIGIN have had EMG's or Duncans (with the singular best two Strats being mid 80's MIJ's both with EMGs). Every "modern" MIA (meaning American Standards built since the late 80's) has always sounded rather dull and lifeless to me with those stock pickups...and I've played quite a few over the years. I do like some of the genuine vintage Fender pickups I've heard over the years and I've even found one or two MIM's that have reasonable sounding pickups (not often, but there have been a couple), however I have yet to play a stock MIA that actually "sounds like a Strat". Certainly they are "different" when compared with an MIM, but better? Hardly. With the pickups, such a comment is totally subjective AT BEST....lots of people swap out those MIA pickups just like folks do with MIM's.

Even when it comes to trem blocks...yea...ok...those MIM trem blocks typically suck (especially the older MIM blocks). Again however, I'm not terribly fond of those "copper infused" blocks you find on MIA's...and they certainly don't compare with the blocks found on genuine vintage instruments. In either case (MIM or MIA), give me a good quality, full sized steel block ANY day. For the difference in the cost of an MIM vs. an MIA, I can easily get a GF solid steel block for around $22 that does the job quite well and even a Callaham block only costs $70 - which blows an MIA block right out of the water.

What's more is that if I want new pickups, a better trem block and hell...even better saddles, I can easily upgrade such items on an MIM at a SUBSTANTIALLY LOWER COST than buying an MIA. So when it comes to hardware, what exactly is better about the MIA when compared with the MIM, let alone THAT much better to really justify the cost?? For those who keep trying to insist that MIA's have "better" hardware, you really should leave your preconceptions and American pride at the door, do a closer comparison and be HONEST about it...the difference just isn't that extraordinary at all.

My own personal preferences aside for the moment (such as my dislike of those 2 point trems), my singular biggest issue with MIA's has always been price. Let's compare here... For that $1300 you pay for a new MIA Standard, lets see what we can get;

MIM Standard - $500
Seymour Duncan California '50s Strat Pickup Set - $140
Callaham trem block - $70
GF Roller T's - $5

Those are the essential upgrades I'd likely do on a new MIM Standard. So far that's only $715 - a difference of $585, so let's add a few more things since the following items are also considered as being in favor of MIA's...

Hardshell case - $50
Strap $10
Cable - $10
Picks and polishing cloth - $5
Trip to luthier to have the fretboard "hand rolled" - $100

We're STILL only up to $900...a $300 price difference compared with an MIA!!! Ya really wanna tell me that bi flex truss rod is somehow worth an extra $300 when the warranty is the same either way? Is some idiotic sense of American pride REALLY worth $300?? And I'm even going a bit over-board on value here assuming some rather premium prices...we could knock $50 of the trem block and go with a GF block instead and I've certainly gotten good quality cables for around $5 each. In fact my tweed Strat case only cost $42 brand new, free shipping, delivered to my door..and since I already have cases, straps and such anyways, those aren't really even "necessities". We could easily knock another $120 off there making the price difference well over $400 for a guitar that plays just as well and sounds BETTER than the average off the shelf MIA!!! And when you consider personal taste and the fact that I'd have to change the pickups and bridge on an MIA right off the bat and have no need of a hand rolled fretboard, that price difference becomes even greater still............

I've never said that MIA's are "bad" guitars, but even in the best circumstances, I just can NOT rationalize that kind of price difference just because one says "Made in USA". When you factor in personal choice, such as my distaste for those bridges and pickups on an MIA...yikes, I say...YIKES! ALL things considered, am I really supposed to pay well over $500 or more just so I can have that silly sticker on the headstock? Aren't there better ways that money can be spent other than some lame-ass sense of nationalistic pride? That just does NOT make sense to me (and I hope it NEVER does...).


I'll stick with my MIM's -any- day.


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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 10:14 am
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I suspect another reason that MIMs are often assumed to be of lesser quality is, oddly enough, also one of their greatest selling points, one that has been mentioned often in this thread, and even in some Fender ads: their lower price points make them great platforms for mods.
Nearly every MIM enthusiast mentions that the first thing they do upon purchase is upgrade all hardware, pickups and wiring-with no worries about impact upon re-sale value.
The same generally can't be said for MIAs, whose enthusiasts are generally looking for an instrument in as close to "original" condition as possible.
I personally have never bought a brand new Fender (or any other brand, for that matter) piece of musical equipment. Used MIA Strats and Teles are usually available for less than New MIMs. Still, the only thing that matters is what you, the player likes, country of manufacture shouldn't enter into the equation.


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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 11:27 am
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Very valid points. I had a drill to my brand new MIM within two days but haven't done anything with my MIAs.

Because of the relatively cheap cost of a MIM swapping and changing components doesn't seem so much of an issue.

However, I still feel that a MIA is more special. I can't put my finger on why, probably a sum of many tiny things. The long and short of it is, I wouldn't buy another MIM.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 12:56 pm
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For me it is just that I am a " Made in America " guy.
Maybe because I work for an American auto maker, the way I was raised or maybe I just feel like I'm helping support a fellow American who will support me to "keep the economy strong". I know I cannot buy all U.S.A made but if I have a choice I will pay more for the label. I own ten guitars, one is a ESP (japan) and one korean made Fender acoustic, all the rest American made.
In MY MIND American made guitars ( Strats ) are better and that all that matters to me.


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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 6:36 pm
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"American auto maker"......that's a good one!

Ford, OMC, and Fiat have been purchasing components from off-shore suppliers for over fifty years now and if you worked for one of these corporations you'd know that.

Get a grip!

:roll:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 8:01 pm
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I will never buy a Mexican Strat myself. I couldnt even believe it the first time I heard they were made there too. I think I laughed, but I must admit they are getting better. I have two American Standards and a Highway 1 and I have not found a Mexican Strat new or old that even comes close to those things they are just amazing guitars. Belong right next to my Gibson Les Pauls and Marshall Stacks. Rock And Roll Champions.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 10:47 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
"American auto maker"......that's a good one!

Ford, OMC, and Fiat have been purchasing components from off-shore suppliers for over fifty years now and if you worked for one of these corporations you'd know that.

Get a grip!

:roll:

Arjay


+1k... !!

Back in the mid-90s, I ran a hotel co. w/ 28 hotels in 17 states (Franchisee for most major brands). Many of these properties were in second-tier cities where airfares were unbelievably expensive - all the deals were into O'Hare, JFK, Logan, DFW, Hartsfield, etc. So I often drove to the properties where airfare was prohibitive.

I had the go from MSP to Bloomington, IN to do a presentation to Case who had an assembly facility there, to gain their corporate business for people visiting the plant at our local Radisson.

Along with this, I had to also make a duplicate presentation to the local UAW (United Auto Workers) chapter because their contract w/ Case gave them approval rights on any facility which may house visiting UAW members. The 2nd presentation was necessary because the UAW refused to sit in talks jointly w/ Case Mgmt.

I was driving a 1995 Honda Passport (an upscale Isuzu Rodeo). I got to the UAW local and there was a sign at the entrance reading: "Parking for American Cars Only !! ".

With my appointment 5 min. away, I pulled into the lot. But before I could get into a parking space, two UAW members ran out, waving their hands, shouting: "You can't park here... !!" I said:" Why not? I'm here to meet with your local president..." One guy started up: "Only American Cars here... !!"

Having had enough, I said: " You mean this one which was assembled in Indiana by the UAW ? See the sticker on the window ? (stating Proudly assembled in Indiana with the UAW logo beneath it).

The other guy said: "It's a Honda..." I said: "Actually it's a re-branded Isuzu. It has a GM Transmission, AC-Delco Ignition and Electronics, Rochester Fuel-Injection, Bendix brakes, Goodyear Tires and Monroe Shocks... it's probably more American than you are... "

They both huddled together and the first guy came up, dropped his head and said: "Go ahead then..." :lol: :lol: :lol:

Btw, we got the business... :D :D :D

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 1:58 am
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donnycraven wrote:

Well yes there are higher end ones. Im sorry I was just referring to standards I should have said that. The new Lone Star is another fine example if the bridge was a bit better it would be almost impossible to tell the difference.


The Lone Star is on my short list!


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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 3:24 am
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fenderfan wrote:
donnycraven wrote:

Well yes there are higher end ones. Im sorry I was just referring to standards I should have said that. The new Lone Star is another fine example if the bridge was a bit better it would be almost impossible to tell the difference.


The Lone Star is on my short list!



They are cool ones for sure,

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 7:17 am
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Lightnin MN wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
"American auto maker"......that's a good one!

Ford, OMC, and Fiat have been purchasing components from off-shore suppliers for over fifty years now and if you worked for one of these corporations you'd know that.

Get a grip!

:roll:

Arjay


+1k... !!

Back in the mid-90s, I ran a hotel co. w/ 28 hotels in 17 states (Franchisee for most major brands). Many of these properties were in second-tier cities where airfares were unbelievably expensive - all the deals were into O'Hare, JFK, Logan, DFW, Hartsfield, etc. So I often drove to the properties where airfare was prohibitive.

I had the go from MSP to Bloomington, IN to do a presentation to Case who had an assembly facility there, to gain their corporate business for people visiting the plant at our local Radisson.

Along with this, I had to also make a duplicate presentation to the local UAW (United Auto Workers) chapter because their contract w/ Case gave them approval rights on any facility which may house visiting UAW members. The 2nd presentation was necessary because the UAW refused to sit in talks jointly w/ Case Mgmt.

I was driving a 1995 Honda Passport (an upscale Isuzu Rodeo). I got to the UAW local and there was a sign at the entrance reading: "Parking for American Cars Only !! ".

With my appointment 5 min. away, I pulled into the lot. But before I could get into a parking space, two UAW members ran out, waving their hands, shouting: "You can't park here... !!" I said:" Why not? I'm here to meet with your local president..." One guy started up: "Only American Cars here... !!"

Having had enough, I said: " You mean this one which was assembled in Indiana by the UAW ? See the sticker on the window ? (stating Proudly assembled in Indiana with the UAW logo beneath it).

The other guy said: "It's a Honda..." I said: "Actually it's a re-branded Isuzu. It has a GM Transmission, AC-Delco Ignition and Electronics, Rochester Fuel-Injection, Bendix brakes, Goodyear Tires and Monroe Shocks... it's probably more American than you are... "

They both huddled together and the first guy came up, dropped his head and said: "Go ahead then..." :lol: :lol: :lol:

Btw, we got the business... :D :D :D

cheers!



Wow, really?? I was talking about why I prefer American made guitars.. :roll:

OP asked what our "thoughts" were on the subject of MIA being better that MIM, no need to "get a grip" on anything :?


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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 10:01 am
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I'm sure you're quite comfortable with your xenophobia.

:roll:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 11:44 am
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Considering many of us aren't from the US there is no stigma associated with either Mexico or the former British colony, perhaps aside history as America was where the first Strats were made.

Both my recent Strats arrived in England via Germany (as they were the cheapest suppliers) so no Jigoism there.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 2:26 pm
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John Sims wrote:
Considering many of us aren't from the US there is no stigma associated with either Mexico or the former British colony, perhaps aside history as America was where the first Strats were made.

Both my recent Strats arrived in England via Germany (as they were the cheapest suppliers) so no Jigoism there.


Yes to me the Made in USA ones are the real ones just like the made in Britain Marshalls are the real thing. I wouldn't buy a Made in Vietnam Marshall I want the real thing. Im sure the Vietnam Marshalls are ok too and so are the Mexican Strats. I dont think they are as bad as they used to be and seem like genuinely good guitars now but Im just not interested in them anymore than an Epiphone Les Paul. I play shows with many good players that use all the above mentioned and they sound great and they are quite happy with them. I think at this point it is just a players preference.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 3:55 pm
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donnycraven wrote:
Yes to me the Made in USA ones are the real ones just like the made in Britain Marshalls are the real thing.


You flag-wavers crack me up!

If the country-of-origin of all the constituent materials and parts in a so-called "made in America" Stratocaster were ever made public, you "patriots" would likely be grabbing your pitchforks and heading to Scottsdale to re-enact the Salem Witch Trials with FMIC's owners.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Arjay

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