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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Fri May 01, 2015 8:09 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
John Sims wrote:
What is the magic ingredient which makes an American Strat better? One would hope it is something as why else do we pay more?
Frets
Pickups
Bridges and other hardware
Resale value (that's the big one)


Resale is likely same-same once you factor-in that you're paying much more upfront for the MIA.

I suspect that on a percentage basis, they're about equal in the end... :wink:

cheers!

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 12:22 am
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93greenstrat wrote:
John Sims wrote:
Comparing my MIM to my MIAs there are a couple of aspects which make the MIAs feel more of a quality product.

The MIM has a thinner scratch plate. Yup, it's a silly small thing but I don't like it. It deforms around the screws and bellies a little at the top. Great if you like to stack your picks there - but I don't. The edge hasn't been polished either. It's a silly thing but I find it sufficiently annoying that it is going to be replaced.


Hmmm....you sure about that? ....


Ah perception. Have just checked and they are all 2.5 mm thick so I was wrong about that but they are different. The laminations on the MIAs are of equal thickness where as the MIM the top lamination is thinner so 1mm/1mm/.5 mm. The edges have evident cutter marks and it appears to be a softer material - a polyester perhaps compared to acrylic on the MIAs.

Obviously this is just comparing mine and I shall try to sort a photograph later demonstrating what I mean.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 12:41 am
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Lightnin MN wrote:

Resale is likely same-same once you factor-in that you're paying much more upfront for the MIA.

I suspect that on a percentage basis, they're about equal in the end... :wink:

cheers!


I agree with you on more recent MIMs where you can relate them to a specific model. But I think older, less definitive, models end up being valued as the lowest common denominator. IE you are less likely to see a difference between an cheap and expensive MIM second hand. Perhaps not so good when MIMs vary from £350 to £900. In that respect, from a resale point of view, I think you are far safer buying an American Standard compared to a high spec MIM.

This is great if you are buying a second hand one but not so peachy if you are selling a top end MIM you bought new.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 5:31 am
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I haven't played a Mexi yet that felt to me like it was on par with an MIA. When I was culling my herd a few years back I sold two MIMs and kept a MIK as it was the one I felt was worth keeping.

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YMMV

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 9:16 am
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Well I must say that I'm pleasantly surprised at all the POSITIVE comments regarding the MIM's here...maybe I've finally been a good influence on some of these people after all! LOL!!!

In my mind, the differences between an MIA and MIM just never justified the extravagant price difference. As others have already suggested, the difference regarding any sense of "craftsmanship" or quality isn't significant...when you understand that these are all mass produced items, you just can't tell me that the guy down there in Mexico who's loading Strat bodies onto a CNC machine 4 at a time is any more or less of a craftsman than the guy doing the exact same job on the same equipment up the road in Corona. In this case we're talking about Fender products, created by Fender trained employees to Fender specifications on virtually identical equipment. There are "video tours" on Youtube of both factories...see if you can tell the difference. I will say that the one significant difference regarding quality...or the perception of quality, isn't about the production of the instruments as it is about "set up". A lot of guitar shops will go to the trouble of doing a proper setup on guitars costing $1000 or more (such as the MIA), however guitars costing $500 or less (MIM's) often come out of the box and go right on the display. This is NOT a reflection of the quality of either instrument as a whole...it's simply the nature of the music retail business today. Take a properly setup MIM and put it side by side with a poorly setup MIA or even a poorly setup Custom Shop instrument and I guarantee the MIM will play better EVERY time.

Beyond that, let's look at "features".... To me the pickups on MIA's sound just as bad as most MIM's...I don't really care for most Fender branded pickups regardless of origin (I prefer Duncans or EMG). Why should I pay extra for something I'm gonna change anyways? Likewise, I do NOT like those stupid 2 point trems (the same way I don't like Floyd Rose trems)...those just have a terrible feel to me, so again why pay extra for this? Bi-flex truss rod? Seems like A LOT of guitars (including Fenders) have used more traditional truss rods for MANY years...and in EITHER case (MIM vs MIA), the warranty is the same...why would I pay extra for this? Sure the MIA's come with a hardshell and "case candy" (which in and of themselves are also WAY over-priced)...I already have plenty of hardshell cases and several straps, so again, why pay extra? "Hand rolled fretboards"? I'm perfectly happy with what came off the machine down there in Mexico (and even if I wasn't, for the price difference, this can easily be accomplished by a good luthier...even if I couldn't do it myself).

Regarding "resale value", while I've said this elsewhere, I'll say it again here...if you take the time to do the math, the resale value is almost identical between MIM's and MIA's given instruments in similar used condition...people shouldn't mistake "price" for "value". In either case, MIM Standard compared to "American Standard", these guitars typically suffer from a 38% depreciation on the used market. Let me be clear here...you can NOT say that an MIA "hold's it's value better" because you can sell it for more than an MIM - the MIA COST MORE TO BEGIN WITH. -If- both guitars cost the same new (give or take accessories) and the MIA sold for more used, THEN you could say the MIA holds it's value better...but that's NOT the case! For those who may be mathematically challenged, think of it like this - if item "A" cost $100 new and typically sells for $50 used and item "B" cost $10 new and sells for $5 used, the resale value is THE SAME...both items have retained 50% of their original value. In fact when it comes to value, many of those "cheap" Squiers actually hold their value better than MIM or MIA as many have 35% depreciation or less.



So beyond preconceptions such as nationalistic pride, what's the difference? Umm...one costs A LOT more? LOL! The simple truth here is that there will always be people who "believe" that the MIA is somehow superior...perhaps they were told this by someone (a teacher or friend perhaps) or maybe they simply read it on an internet forum somewhere. Certainly some folks just believe that all imports are crap...it's NOT true, but facts, logic and reason never get in the way of a good grudge for some people. Maybe it's a reverse rationalization...because they forked out that kind of bread, they feel the need to justify the purchase by believing the MIA is a better instrument. Perhaps they've simply never played a properly setup MIM to really do an honest comparison...a great majority of people honestly can't tell the difference by feel or sound alone beyond a 50/50 guess once the blind fold goes on. As for myself, personally I've played many MIA's over the years...and seriously doubt I'll ever own one. MIA's are nice guitars, but for the fairly radical difference in cost...$800 new...more than double the price of a new MIM, I'll take an MIM every time (or even a good Squier), upgrade it to my own personal taste and needs and still have plenty of pocket change left over. Spending that kind of money on guitar just so I can say mine is "Made in the USA"...that just doesn't make ANY sense to me at all.

As always, just my own personal opinions.


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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 10:16 am
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This is a debate which could go on forever.
I suspect that some of it has to do with made in USA pride; some has to do with some of the lesser quality hardware used on some of the MIM models; some has to do with the first few years of American Standards being of better quality than the first few years of Mexican Standards-in terms of fit, finish, accoutrements, wood, metal, etc. (remember, these shops opened within just a few years of each other); and that the entry level MIM Standards are, IMHO, not of the same quality of the entry level MIA Standards. This is not at all a dig on the top-end Mexican line, which turns out some truly fine, well- constructed and well-thought out instruments.
That said, the Ensenada plant now produces some excellent products, many with features not available on their Corona counterparts, tho' I truly believe the product is not quite as consistent in terms of QC.
Not to say that I have not come across some true dogs that were MIA, as well. I just find that I have to play more MIMs to find a truly superlative instrument than I do MIAs.
Are MIAs always better than MIMs? Of course not. Every instrument has to be judged on its own individual merits, and appeal to the player.
Once again, this debate could go on and on.


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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 10:51 am
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(Repeat mode activated:)
I've never been partial to where a guitar was made, rather to how it feels and plays.
Mind you, and if a little sorta-offtopic-drifting is allowed, I sure hope the Fender Japan isn't completely off - some Teles like the Kotzen signature and the Classic '69 in Paisley are still on the menu and should remain so...

nyquilcoma wrote:
Once again, this debate could go on and on.

Next stop: ash vs alder (etc.). Then: PU, poly or nitro...


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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 3:22 pm
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I have a few Mexicans but just HAD to have a MIA. Now I do, but it seems like it spends most of the time in the case while I keep playing the Mexicans.

I always liked the way that the MIA's seemed to almost play themselves. During the times when I would spend 30 minutes or so at the store trying one out anyway. Opinion kinda changed when I got one home and spent a week playing nothing else. While it is effortless to play it seems harder for me to get my style out of it. I might have to wrestle with the neck of my Mexicans a bit but is easier to make it sound like me. The extra effort is worth it.


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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 3:39 pm
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Funny you should say that as I find my MIM a bit vanilla. My latest MIA (a 10-15 Hardtail) was a bit of an aquired taste, but I now love it. Every time I pick it up seems like a special moment. My other MIA and I have been together 21 years and feels like a comfortable pair of trainers. I don't dislike my MIM by any means (it is the only guitar I have that Ive given a name), but don't have that same excitement about playing it. This is strange as the MIM should be more personal considering it has parts I have fitted, where as the MIAs are completely original.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 6:06 pm
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The most magical part is better pickups. Then its better hardware. Mexicans are historically great guitar builders and they love their Fenders, but they can only build as good of a Fender as USA gives them parts for. Since its supposed to be an economy model appealing to the lower figured purchases, the hardware pickups and finish they are given to use is basically sub par. If they were given the good stuff to put on their wood I bet their's would be as good or better.
Mexico's favorite guitars are Fenders.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 9:10 pm
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donnycraven wrote:
The most magical part is better pickups. Then its better hardware. Mexicans are historically great guitar builders and they love their Fenders, but they can only build as good of a Fender as USA gives them parts for. Since its supposed to be an economy model appealing to the lower figured purchases, the hardware pickups and finish they are given to use is basically sub par. If they were given the good stuff to put on their wood I bet their's would be as good or better.
Mexico's favorite guitars are Fenders.


My Mexi Strat has Texas Specials and my Tele has Vintage Noiseless. If they were Mexican Standards they would have been replaced long ago. I was going to replace the Texas Specials with the Custom Shop version but Guitar Center told me I wouldn't be able to tell the difference so put that money into my New Guitar Fund and eventually got another Mexi Strat. This time one with Duncan's Jeff Beck singlecoil-sized humbuckers in the bridge and neck and the original middle pup. Another great guitar. Gave it to my son as his first real Fender.


Last edited by fenderfan on Tue May 05, 2015 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 9:24 pm
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fenderfan wrote:
donnycraven wrote:
The most magical part is better pickups. Then its better hardware. Mexicans are historically great guitar builders and they love their Fenders, but they can only build as good of a Fender as USA gives them parts for. Since its supposed to be an economy model appealing to the lower figured purchases, the hardware pickups and finish they are given to use is basically sub par. If they were given the good stuff to put on their wood I bet their's would be as good or better.
Mexico's favorite guitars are Fenders.




My Mexi Strat has Texas Specials and my Tele has Vintage Noiseless. If they were Mexican Standards they would have been replaced long ago. I was going to replace the Texas Specials with the Custom Shop version but Guitar Center told me I wouldn't be able to tell the difference so put that money into my New Guitar Fund and eventually got another Mexi Strat. This time one with Duncan's Jeff Beck singlecoil-sized pickups in the bridge and neck and the original middle pup. Another great guitar. Gave it to my son as his first real Fender.



Well yes there are higher end ones. Im sorry I was just referring to standards I should have said that. The new Lone Star is another fine example if the bridge was a bit better it would be almost impossible to tell the difference.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 9:25 pm
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I do think the Mexican Strats are becoming much better as where the Epiphone Les Paul has declined in quality.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 3:20 am
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I have an opinion on all this.

Mexico, Japan, and USA all build the same product to the same tolerances with the only exception maybe measurements. The rest is all the stuff that is screwed, bolted or glued to the wood- thats were it all changes and where people base their own opinions. Hardware, pickups etc.. Remember- we ain't talking stradivarius violins here- just musical instruments made in a rather comparatively speaking- 'crude' way.

I have to laugh when I hear, 'Japan is better' or 'USA is the best' because they are all made & cut by machine.. to the the same tolerances & measurements.

The rest of it- "Deluxe" "American Deluxe" "CustomShop" "Custom Designed" "Tonewoods" (..my favourite!) "Select" etc... they are magical & mystical marketing hype 'impact words' that tend to strike chords in our wallets and bank account and make us try to justify spending as much as $5k for a 'custom' like guitar- that really looks like the rest. I mean think about it- it doesn't really cost Fender that much at all to make an American Deluxe strat
over a USA standard yet they can charge a premium for it. Thats because they will add "Deluxe" or 'custom' to its model name.

Does anyone believe that a customshop instrument is made by hand? if we are talking about the American Custom series, then no. "But aren't they made by the original machines from back in the day?" yeah- but they are still machine made and hand finished.. the same as the rest of them are.

I mean, if you went to a burger joint and saw a 'Customshop Cheeseburger' or "American Deluxe' hamburger, wouldn't you pay out more for the one with the fancy names attached or would you just be happy with a regular hamburger? I know I would.

So, with that in mind- Is an American Strat better than a MIM Strat? how about hardware- does anyone ever think to compare MIM vs. USA guitars from the exact same price points? ...or are we still comparing a MIM standard to an American standard and expecting a like for like comparison? are we feeling disappointed about the lack of quality on the MIM because of this? :mrgreen: Because to me, they are relatively speaking, the same. minus a fret. The only difference are the things that are bolted/glued/screwed to it, as these things are the bits that we like to personalise to our own likings.

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Post subject: Re: American Strats ARE better than MIMs? Your thoughts.
Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 4:41 am
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While I agree with some of your observations I have to disagree in respect of selection and Custom Shop matching bodies and necks.

As soon as you start selecting components rather than picking the next one off a heap the costs escalate dramatically. That one process can take 4, 5, 6 times (whatever) longer. But then you have a neck blank and body paired so you have to ensure these two components are reunited at the assembly stage - more section, looking, finding, time spent. Even if all the other processes are identical, because you are dealing with specific components rather than the next off the heap, you eat time - and time is money. More over you are using the time of an expensive man not a cheap machine operator.

I agree that, to the most part, being able to swap components between MIM and MIA makes the ultimate component choice irrelevant - except there can be dimensional variations between components. For a time you couldn't put a US 2 post trem on a 2 post MIM body because the post centres were different.

I was pleasantly surprised when an American 2 post trem fitted my MIM body - BUT there is a different gap between the scratch plate; and a the cavity is visible in front of the trem arm ear. IE The MIM body is different to a MIA.

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