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Post subject: Why 21 frets on non vintage or non classic guitars ?
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:18 pm
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Im sure this topic has been done to death but im curious why fender still does 21 frets on non vintage or classic guitars ? Im a strat nut ( just getting started with it ) but i don't want to have to buy different necks or swap parts to put a neck on a body color i like. If they were to put 22 frets on all the more modern or deluxe versions ( including mexican standard series ) it would make me more likely to buy them. Dont want to buy guitars and have a bunch of 21 fret necks i have to offload. I can understand from a business sense the reasoning behind putting 21 frets on say a mexican standard and 22 on a more expensive American but thats a turnoff to me.

I think other strat addicts would agree that we would already buy multiple guitars because of color or diff series, but having to buy another guitar or neck to get an extra fret is a bit lame...

One other thing that would be nice to see is a strat with a hotter noiseless single coil in the bridge . Something fat and as warm sounding as a single coil can get without being a " hotrail " type.

The ideal strat for me would be the look of the honey blonde deluxe player strat , 22 frets , a hot noiseless single coil in the bridge , a two point tremolo and have a roller nut.

I think if fender offers more modern features while retaining the look theyll sell more guitars...
just my two cents :wink:


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Post subject: Re: Why 21 frets on non vintage or non classic guitars ?
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:19 am
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It will be down to three main things, cost, cost and cost.

The 22nd fret extension is hand finished, as is evident in the poor way it was executed on my latest guitar. Any hand process is expensive.

With both 21 and 22 fret Strats I can't say that I miss the 22nd fret when it isn't there and I certainly wouldn't change a neck on the strength of it.

Regarding your other suggestions, again it is cost. The more variations to a product line you have the more complications it introduces and the more versions retailers have to stock. The joy of a Strat is it is easy to swap parts subsequently.

Personally I'd be happy if they sold part built guitars with the remaining parts cheaper so that you could spec the guitar yourself at check out. As it is the finished guitars are less than the sum of the parts and Fender can make more by selling you extra parts. Why sell you one bridge pick up if you are going to buy two.

On the plus side, because parts are so easy to change, you can arrive at a guitar with the parts which are important to you for less than an off the shelf version with other atributes which are less important. As an example I like block saddles and two post trem, but don't like S1 switching. I was able to buy a Mexican FSR, swap a few parts, and end up with all the features I want, otherwise only available in an American Deluxe (without the ones I don't want), for around half the price.

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Post subject: Re: Why 21 frets on non vintage or non classic guitars ?
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:21 am
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Id be willing to pay an extra $100 or even $200 if i could get what i want. Say im buying the deluxe player - im already paying $649 which is a fair chunk of dough , whats another one or two hundred dollars to have features i want ? They could still make the cheaper guitars with less features like the mexican standard or the classic stuff.

I think alot of players like me that came from the 80's early 90's hard rock/metal days want and need that extra fret. I mean, eliminating playing in B or E in that position because of one fret ? I was jamming with some old friends with my Squire surf strat and they start in with an old scorpions song rock you like a hurricane...i needed that fret. lol

It amazes me that their standard strat HSS FR only has 21. I mean, thats pretty much a rock/metal guitar yet no 22nd fret ?

I do get the point of keeping things looking classic too, but if they cared about that- why would they even bother with humbuckers or floyds ? That is far more sacrilege to a strat than an extra fret. I think humbuckers in a strat are ugly- hot single coils or rails for me only .

Strats are like the ferrari ( or insert favorite high end car here ) of the electric guitar world. Fender knows it. So why would they want to limit features that wouldn't have any effect on the look style or originality of the guitar ? And for people already spending $500 up - what would a couple more hundred dollars really be if you get what you want ?

And its not like once i or anybody else gets exactly what they want ( stock or customized at home ) they will quit buying them. It seems like every week im into a different one.

Its just a thought . If i have to buy the stock one and get a different neck ill do so. Cant say ill get the neck from fender because i dont support the need to do so. Its not illegal to buy aftermarket logos either as long as you aren't re selling the guitar as an " original fender product " .

It would be cool to also eventually see neck through strats with high output active single coil size pups maybe with floyds as well.

You cant beat the look of this guitar. Its stood the test of time and they are worth having just to look at...but more features would make them more useful in my opinion...


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Post subject: Re: Why 21 frets on non vintage or non classic guitars ?
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:21 am
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Also, its funny that one extra fret should cost so much more. Companies like Jackson Dean and Esp pump out guitars with 24 fret bolt on necks, two humbuckers ( sometimes with a single coil in mid ) flame maple veneer tops and a floyd rose for sometimes less than $400. So i don't get the cost argument .

Again,Fender has a guitar style and logo that will never go out of style. They dont look antiquated like the Paul yet they dont look like some 80's hair metal axe or a V X wild death metal shape either. But, having features that allow sounds from any era without changing the look too much would be a big plus. And offer each series in more colors. I dont think it would be that difficult.


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Post subject: Re: Why 21 frets on non vintage or non classic guitars ?
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:36 am
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Is this just a rant ??
Look at the marketshare of the brands you just mentioned. Fenders is mostly R/B, Rock, granted some metal players but not the majority. A company will follow the demand. Fender did offer production lines aimed at the George Lynch side of the fretboard.

To be fair, you can order what you want in a guitar but business side it doesn't make any sense for Fender to offer a line of guitars that have a small minority of buyers. Most of the models would not get sold since for (1) Fender owns Jackson, so why would you compete with your own product ? (2) If you want it this particular way then you'll just have to pony up and order it to the specs you want.

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Post subject: Re: Why 21 frets on non vintage or non classic guitars ?
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:46 am
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57trouble wrote:
..... Companies like Jackson Dean and Esp pump out guitars with 24 fret bolt on necks, two humbuckers ( sometimes with a single coil in mid ) flame maple veneer tops and a floyd rose for sometimes less than $400. So i don't get the cost argument ....


You aren't comparing Apples with Apples.

The more options and variations you have the more options and variations a retailer or distributor has to buy in advance of your choice and stock. If one guitar is identical in every aspect except it comes in four different colours the retailer has to buy all four examples in order that you can choose one.

If the specification of that guitar is subsequently changed, or updated, they then end up discounting the guitar to sell it and so don't realise the profit they should have done despite having tied up capital for a longer period of time.

Strats have an almost infinite number of variations based on available Fender parts alone.

Thomanns list 370 variations of Strat available, off the shelf, made by Fender.

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Post subject: Re: Why 21 frets on non vintage or non classic guitars ?
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:59 am
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57trouble wrote:
... Cant say ill get the neck from fender because i dont support the need to do so. Its not illegal to buy aftermarket logos either ...


You're not wrong. And you can put a Turbo badge on the back of a normally aspirated car as well. Both will make you look like a dick.

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Post subject: Re: Why 21 frets on non vintage or non classic guitars ?
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:59 am
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57trouble wrote:
i don't want to have to buy different necks or swap parts to put a neck on a body color i like
So actually your main complaint is the color selection offered?
57trouble wrote:
honey blonde
22 frets
a hot noiseless single coil in the bridge
a two point tremolo
a roller nut

Maybe hand made, reliced, special fret size..? Starts to sound like a Custom Shop order. :twisted:


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Post subject: Re: Why 21 frets on non vintage or non classic guitars ?
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:19 am
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I'm done on this thread, it is resembling a Trollfest ..

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Post subject: Re: Why 21 frets on non vintage or non classic guitars ?
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:55 am
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Yep, that's why I chose the tone on my post. The OP seems to want Fenders, but isn't satisfied with them, check the previous:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=97658

Now, to be serious for a while: every player wants a guitar according to his/her own personal preferences.
That's of course possible, one just has to a) mod an existing model, or b) cough up the money for a custom model.


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Post subject: Re: Why 21 frets on non vintage or non classic guitars ?
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:16 am
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This is just my own $.02 worth as always, but personally I wouldn't buy (or not buy) a guitar just because it has 1 extra fret (or not). For myself at least, the number of frets is pretty low on the priority list...I'm more concerned with how well the instrument plays and how it sounds (and/or how well I can tailor the sound). I mean seriously, what's the thinking here? "Wow...that'd be a really great guitar...if it only had 1 more fret"...really?

Of the 10 Strats I currently own, only 2 of them are 22 fret necks...a Squier Standard (which I bought as an impulse mainly because I loved the finish) and a partscaster I built sometime ago (in this case I used a 22 fret neck from another Squier Standard because I wanted the large headstock to go with the aesthetics of the instrument)...in both cases the number of frets was pretty irrelevant. The Strats I play the most (my MIM's) are all 21 frets...and to be perfectly honest, I've never missed that extra fret at all.

In addition to all the other comments made here regarding options such as other brands available, ordering custom or wow...just building your own, it seems to me that a 21 fret Strat has stood the test of time well enough...look at the shear numbers of how well these instruments sell and it would seem that the vast majority of people are pretty happy (I know I am). The simple truth here is that Fender builds what sells and being the large company they are, they're not in the habit of catering to one or two disgruntled snits (beyond CS of course)...if a product doesn't sell, they don't make it for too long (this alone should tell the OP something).

Between the comments about the extra fret, color and headstock decal, to me it simply sounds as though someone may have their priorities mixed up...if a person has trouble playing a guitar because it only has 21 frets instead of 22, it sounds like the problem may NOT be the guitar at all. Either way, if the OP isn't happy with the stock selection of Strats out there (both Fender and Squier), which as others have said is pretty vast and if the OP can't even find an instrument in the used/vintage market that tickles their fancy, then the options seem pretty clear - he (she) should probably either consider another brand (Jackson, Ibanez, etc), spending the money to order custom shop or simply building their own. Custom shop or a home build/mod are really the ONLY way to get EXACTLY what you want...and this way the only person the OP could blame for any lack of satisfaction would be him (her) self.

Again, just my own opinions.


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Post subject: Re: Why 21 frets on non vintage or non classic guitars ?
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:55 am
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53magnatone wrote:
I'm done on this thread, it is resembling a Trollfest ..


I'm trying to sit on my hands. :roll:

Mind you perhaps the OP has a point. Who's to say that Richie Blackmore didn't give up on Rock because he had done all he could with the rest of the neck and got frustrated when he ran out of frets. I mean, "Smoke on The Water" could have been a Rock Classic if only Richie had had 24 frets at his disposal. When you consider how many numbers have been compromised by guitars who's fret number is only 21 its a wonder Fender sell any guitars at all.

And what about that bloke Hendrix. Not only did he have to make do with 21 frets but then he detuned his guitar a semi tone so, in effect, only had 20 frets if he wanted to play anything by Saxon.

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Post subject: Re: Why 21 frets on non vintage or non classic guitars ?
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:31 am
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Problem solved - THE FRETAMIZER

Image

Play solos so high that only dogs can hear them.

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Post subject: Re: Why 21 frets on non vintage or non classic guitars ?
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 11:36 am
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John Sims wrote:
Play solos so high that only dogs can hear them.


LMFAO!

:wink:

Arjay (also a victim of fret deprivation for decades now)

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Post subject: Re: Why 21 frets on non vintage or non classic guitars ?
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:16 pm
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John Sims wrote:
Play solos so high that only dogs can hear them.


Nice one! :D

The only thing is, someone else got there first ....

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